April 2, 2025
Inside the Messaging Meltdown of the Signal Chat: From Denial to Damage Control
The SignalGate fallout isn’t just about an accidental group chat. It’s about the unraveling that happens when powerful people panic, deny, and deflect—all while trying to hold onto credibility in real time. This episode unpacks how a single journalist ended up in a military planning thread with top Trump officials, and why the aftermath says more about the communication breakdown inside the administration than it does about the strike itself. From strategic missteps to ethical high-wire acts, this one’s a case study in what not to do when a digital leak turns into a national headline.
There’s also a deeper layer at play: the psychological and political reasons behind denial, the misuse of secure platforms, and how blame is conveniently passed down the chain. For communicators and leaders, the fallout becomes a cautionary tale—a chance to stress-test your own crisis readiness and rethink what accountability should actually look like when power is on the line.
In this episode:
- Why denial is a weak (but often used) PR strategy in high-stakes situations
- The specific missteps that turned a comms error into a reputational mess
- How secure communication isn’t just an IT issue—it’s a leadership one
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Chapters
00:00 - Atlantic's Bombshell Story Breaks
05:12 - The Crisis PR Meltdown Unfolds
09:30 - Trump and Officials' Denial Strategy
16:04 - Cast of Characters and Responses
21:25 - Why People Refuse to Acknowledge Mistakes
24:11 - Ethics of Reporting and Security Breach
26:30 - Lessons for Communicators
Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:06.126 --> 00:00:07.708
The title says it all.
00:00:07.708 --> 00:00:13.775
Inside the messaging meltdown of the signal chat fallout from denial to damage control.
00:00:13.775 --> 00:00:21.474
But that title doesn't even come close to the title in the Atlantic written by Jeffrey Goldberg.
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The Trump administration accidentally texted me its war plans.
00:00:26.681 --> 00:00:36.732
I don't know the last time you remember the Atlantic coming out with a story that grabbed the headlines for a number of days, but this one certainly did the job On this episode.
00:00:36.732 --> 00:00:39.942
Let's break down the meltdown.
00:00:39.942 --> 00:00:42.524
Hey there, welcome to the PR Breakdown Podcast.
00:00:42.524 --> 00:00:52.530
I'm your host, Molly McPherson, and, as I said, that article title in the Atlantic is a great title, but the article itself.
00:00:52.530 --> 00:00:55.052
Let me bring you back a week.
00:00:55.493 --> 00:01:06.983
I don't know if this is quite the story where I ask you, where were you when you read or heard about the Atlantic article by Jeffrey Goldberg, about the Atlantic article by Jeffrey Goldberg?
00:01:06.983 --> 00:01:07.543
But I was traveling.
00:01:07.543 --> 00:01:11.612
I was in Chicago, I was out of town for a work event, I was speaking at a company, a corporate event, and it was fabulous.
00:01:11.612 --> 00:01:13.584
By the way, it was a two-part trip.
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The first half of the trip I was visiting my daughter, Kathleen.
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We were prepping for an interview and also shopping for that first interview Wardrobe capsule.
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But the second half involved me participating in a corporate event.
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It was a corporate event in Chicago, downtown, Great setup.
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It was a great event and my daughter attended that event as well.
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But this story was on my mind and I didn't really want to weave it into this event, though I did touch on it because here's the disclaimer.
00:01:42.552 --> 00:01:48.144
Touch on it because here's the disclaimer it's political.
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I wanted to come up this story without a bias.
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I don't want to fall on one side or the other.
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However, it is impossible to talk about this story without looking and scrutinizing at what the Republicans are doing here.
00:02:01.953 --> 00:02:11.710
So if you can try to remove the political bias out of this, I don't want to share it via bias.
00:02:11.710 --> 00:02:16.643
Let's look at this as a nonpartisan take at politics.
00:02:16.643 --> 00:02:31.949
I'm coming in strictly in a PR crisis management, reputation management mode, but if you know me and you know my ethics and you know just my principle and communication, why this was such a fail.
00:02:32.751 --> 00:02:33.793
Now the Atlantic story.
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This piece is good, One of the reasons why I loved it.
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Not only was it like a bomb drop going out and you knew it was going to have legs, it was clever, it had a touch of snark to it as well, Like you could picture yourself as Jeffrey Goldberg and he brought you through so many of the stages.
00:02:53.013 --> 00:03:11.930
And what I didn't truly appreciate until days later when I read it again, is not only is he writing a story which isn't easy, and he's writing it on deadline because they likely wanted to get it out because the attack already happened, so they wanted to tighten that timeline.
00:03:11.930 --> 00:03:20.680
They were probably researching it, vetting it, making sure that they weren't breaching security by what they were sharing.
00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:30.508
And certainly in Goldberg's measured writing they did not include all the information initially.
00:03:30.508 --> 00:03:41.260
Now, once the administration started backpedaling and denial and pointing fingers, then certainly the Atlantic came out and released more of information from the chat.
00:03:41.260 --> 00:03:48.831
I should also say that Jeffrey Goldberg does a really good job giving credit to a contributor and that is Shane Harris.
00:03:48.831 --> 00:03:58.933
So it sounds like Shane was, you know, back at the office like researching like crazy, while Jeffrey Goldberg was looking at this chat in real time.
00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:00.783
I'm not going to go too deep into it.
00:04:00.783 --> 00:04:01.787
It's a big news story.
00:04:01.787 --> 00:04:21.146
If you haven't heard about it, just hit pause on the podcast and then come on back, but it's essentially everywhere but the disclosure by the Atlantic of the Signal Group chat, where senior Trump administration officials and figures discuss plans for a military strike on Houthi targets in Yemen.
00:04:21.146 --> 00:04:26.675
It did not ignite a firestorm because of the attack itself.
00:04:26.675 --> 00:04:32.105
It was the crisis PR meltdown that happened.
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Jeffrey Goldberg had to be very careful in these sensitive discussions when he was releasing this story.
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The fact that he was able to do it and report on a breach at this level just makes it a truly extraordinary story.
00:04:49.144 --> 00:05:00.333
Now the immediate aftermath saw a flurry of statements from officials, administration, but also the people who were on the chat itself.
00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:04.266
I mentioned I was in Chicago when this story hit.
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I spent the morning in the hotel working, but it was a chance that I had to put the television on.
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I normally don't work with the television on, but not only did I watch the coverage in the morning, I was watching Morning Joe because they had the roundtable.
00:05:19.209 --> 00:05:21.862
They had a big roundtable, which I like, and it wasn't really a roundtable.
00:05:21.862 --> 00:05:24.290
It had people on the screen and they also had Jeffrey Goldberg.
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I wanted to hear straight from him.
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So that's the first time I heard from Jeffrey Goldberg.
00:05:27.620 --> 00:05:44.233
But also I had a chance to watch the hearing the Senate hearing, Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, and CIA Director John Ratcliffe, who did not come off as a CIA operative or a very good one, and it was an interesting watch.
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I used an appropriate channel to communicate sensitive information.
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It was permissible to do so.
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I didn't transfer any classified information and, at the end of the day, what is most important is that the mission was a remarkable success.
00:06:02.663 --> 00:06:07.713
Now what I'm interested in was the denial and the deflection.
00:06:07.713 --> 00:06:15.504
I want to know who said what and why they said it, because I'm always looking to read between the lines to see what's going on.
00:06:15.504 --> 00:06:21.043
What I'm looking for in particular is who's going to be the fall guy Now, president Trump.
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I'm going to list some of the claims, charges, deflections, denials that the administration put out and a lot of the characters.
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We'll call them a cast of characters.
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So he led the charge by repeatedly asserting quote it wasn't classified information.
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That is the talking point out of the administration right now.
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It wasn't classified.
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He dismissed the entire episode.
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I don't know about downplaying.
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The press upplays it.
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I think it's all a witch hunt.
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That's all.
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I think it's a witch hunt.
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I wasn't involved with it, I wasn't there and labeled the journalist, jeffrey Goldberg, as a quote total bleezbag, which I found interesting because typically Trump uses that type of derogatory language for women.
00:07:13.346 --> 00:07:23.952
He only calls women those types of terms Hillary Clinton, rosie O'Donnell, megyn Kelly at a time, but now she's completely back over on the other side.
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Trump also suggested that quote signal could be defective, to be honest with you, as the and quote likely explanation for it.
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He downplayed the severity of it.
00:07:35.031 --> 00:07:42.014
He called it quote the only hiccup in two months of his administration.
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And then he also attempted to shift blame by suggesting that, quote Joe Biden should have done this attack on Yemen.
00:07:49.490 --> 00:07:51.514
Let's get into Pete Hegseth.
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Before I get into this Pete, let's just do a quick sidebar on the other Pete, pete Buttigieg.
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The other piece of content that I saw immediately after the Atlantic like the algorithm serves me, it dishes me hard was Pete Buttigieg's social media post Drops an F-bomb, drops an S-bomb, but he's measured, he's calm.
00:08:16.134 --> 00:08:24.084
He's putting it out there in a very direct signal that I think this guy is going to run without a doubt.
00:08:24.084 --> 00:08:26.120
He's talking about his military service.
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He's talking about the importance of keeping information secure, specifically around any type of military action.
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He's talking about incompetence.
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He's talking about that lives are at risk.
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It really was a spot-on response from a candidate whose primary objective for anyone from theetives, that's a signal that he was messaging towards his way back into politics.
00:09:11.947 --> 00:09:13.971
Just calling that one right there.
00:09:13.971 --> 00:09:18.493
So let's go back to the other Pete, defense Secretary Pete Hegseth Now.
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He was the key participant in the chat.
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He stated unequivocally the chat.
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He stated unequivocally no units, no locations, no routes, no flight paths no sources, no methods, no classified information.
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There wasn't a specific name in there.
00:09:38.585 --> 00:09:42.916
There wasn't a specific street address, location, but he created the no list.
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It was classified information.
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Even though there weren't names in it, it's still classified information.
00:09:49.586 --> 00:09:52.741
It doesn't mean that it has to include names to be classified.
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What the Republicans are trying to do, specifically Pete Hegseth, is attempting to draw a distinction by claiming that details were shared, were an attack plan rather than a war plan.
00:10:04.592 --> 00:10:07.398
Okay, again, semantics.
00:10:07.398 --> 00:10:13.371
Hegseth later claimed that his disclosures were intended to quote provide updates in real time.
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Justify is why he was doing it.
00:10:17.225 --> 00:10:19.692
And they had to use a signal app because it was in real time.
00:10:19.692 --> 00:10:30.947
That is a statement that strains credibility, given the pre-strike nature of the information and the chat.
00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:39.394
The next character in our cast, national Security Advisor and fall guy, michael Waltz.
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He's the one who created the chat.
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He is taking the fall for the chat.
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He offered a variety of explanations.
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He initially suggested that Goldberg may have been quote sucked into and quote the group.
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He also claimed he was not a conspiracy theorist.
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He later stated that quote a staffer wasn't responsible.
00:11:01.725 --> 00:11:15.126
He was taking full responsibility, while also claiming he had quote never texted Mr Goldberg and that he wasn't on his phone at the time of the chat and even after acknowledging the mistake, waltz maintained that all the information in the exchange was unclassified.
00:11:15.126 --> 00:11:23.889
What's interesting is that Michael Waltz by but falling on the sword and taking responsibility and not blaming a staffer.
00:11:24.409 --> 00:11:28.053
There is a crisis management move in there.
00:11:28.053 --> 00:11:33.840
I call these crazy Ivans straight out of Hunt for Red October, one of my favorite movies of all time.
00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:35.621
One, one ping only.
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You're going to turn into it.
00:11:43.726 --> 00:11:44.808
You're going to turn into the crisis.
00:11:44.808 --> 00:11:46.312
You're going to turn into the missile that's coming.
00:11:46.312 --> 00:11:48.115
He's not going to name the staffers.
00:11:48.196 --> 00:11:57.769
If you have access to New York Times that's where I was reading it you'll see that staffers were involved Alex Wong, the deputy to Michael Waltz.
00:11:57.769 --> 00:11:59.934
He was tasked with pulling together a Tiger team.
00:11:59.934 --> 00:12:05.735
Also, dan Katz he was representing Treasury Secretary Scott Bessard.
00:12:05.735 --> 00:12:08.467
Dan Caldwell, representing Hegseth.
00:12:08.467 --> 00:12:11.434
Andy Baker, representing Vice President JD Vance.
00:12:11.434 --> 00:12:13.929
Mike Needham, counselor to the State Department.
00:12:13.929 --> 00:12:16.419
So there were other staffers on there.
00:12:16.419 --> 00:12:18.826
They could have figured it out as well.
00:12:18.826 --> 00:12:26.595
So it may have been the staffer Michael Waltz staffer who made the error when putting the chat together, and he has no choice.
00:12:26.595 --> 00:12:27.557
Waltz has no choice.
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Trump has said you, my friend, are going to be the person who takes the fall on that.
00:12:32.715 --> 00:12:35.947
Then there is Secretary of State Marco Rubio.
00:12:35.947 --> 00:12:41.158
Called it quote a big mistake that quote someone made in adding a journalist.
00:12:41.158 --> 00:12:48.657
He echoed the administration line that quote there were no war plans on there and suggested the incident could lead to reforms.
00:12:48.657 --> 00:12:53.232
Rubio wants to get in and he wants to get out.
00:12:53.715 --> 00:13:13.548
Then there's Vice President JD Vance, who has an additional layer of stress on this text chat being exposed because it showed that he publicly, or at least in this group chat, went against his boss, president Trump, which is not something that people do in this cabinet, in this administration.
00:13:13.548 --> 00:13:18.077
So he had concerns about the timing and rationale for the strikes.
00:13:18.077 --> 00:13:23.581
He also worried about the potential inconsistency with the president's message on Europe.
00:13:23.581 --> 00:13:29.945
He expressed a sentiment of not wanting to bail Europe out again, aligning with the administration's argument.
00:13:29.945 --> 00:13:35.216
Here are the response tactics by the Trump administration.
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Imagine this as a talking point sheet.
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This is their plan of attack.
00:13:41.750 --> 00:13:52.072
At the top, the key message downplay the significance of the story, the significance of the chat.
00:13:52.072 --> 00:13:57.488
You'll notice in a lot of Trump's quotes he is consistently downplaying it.
00:13:57.488 --> 00:13:59.293
He's referring to it as a glitch.
00:13:59.293 --> 00:14:00.976
And it wasn't classified information.
00:14:00.976 --> 00:14:16.773
I was on Reddit I was on military Reddit the amount of people lighting up over this and everyone is saying the same thing If we did this we'd be in prison, we'd be in Leavenworth, they'd be out defend and deflect without pointing it somewhere.
00:14:16.933 --> 00:14:56.096
Trump, he blame shifted, he called the app itself that it could be defective, as I said, was sucked into it, which Jeffrey Goldberg himself said he was worried that it was like a media gadfly, like a trap to get the journalists sucked in to report incorrectly and then the administration could say see, journalists, they're untrustworthy.
00:14:56.096 --> 00:15:00.953
Another tactic attacking the credibility of the source.
00:15:00.953 --> 00:15:03.379
This is where it's difficult.
00:15:03.379 --> 00:15:11.717
Of all the journalists and of all the media outlets that you want to go after, the Atlantic is a tough one to go after.
00:15:11.717 --> 00:15:17.235
First of all, it's print, it's established, it's privately owned.
00:15:17.235 --> 00:15:19.666
There isn't a Jeff Bezos who owns it.
00:15:19.666 --> 00:15:23.874
He has the bona fides in Washington DC.
00:15:23.874 --> 00:15:26.926
Jeffrey Goldberg as a writer, he's a good writer.
00:15:26.926 --> 00:15:28.390
He's been in the Beltway for years.
00:15:28.390 --> 00:15:31.722
He's been considered a trusted journalist.
00:15:31.722 --> 00:15:35.351
There's never been stories about him, ethical challenges at all.
00:15:35.351 --> 00:15:44.798
Jeffrey Goldberg on Morning Joe said we're privately owned and we have over a million subscribers and growing.
00:15:44.798 --> 00:15:49.476
That, particularly nowadays in the media landscape, is pretty strong.
00:15:49.476 --> 00:15:54.115
He's a very difficult source to attack.
00:15:54.115 --> 00:15:55.557
That is problematic.
00:15:55.644 --> 00:16:02.099
So these instances that I just outlined demonstrate a multi-pronged approach to denial and deflection.
00:16:02.099 --> 00:16:05.499
That's what it looks like in full display.
00:16:05.499 --> 00:16:10.657
The administration was aiming to minimize the severity of the situation.
00:16:10.657 --> 00:16:14.587
They denied any classified information was a compromise.
00:16:14.587 --> 00:16:19.465
They shifted the blame away from senior officials, except for poor Michael Waltz.
00:16:19.465 --> 00:16:27.451
They discredited the reporting and they redirected the focus towards perceived success of the Trump administration.
00:16:27.451 --> 00:16:30.533
Was this push into Greenland?
00:16:30.533 --> 00:17:06.018
In the same news cycle, usha Vance, jd Vance's wife, was scheduled to go to Greenland, or that her plans were released, that she was going to Greenland with her young son and this was a traveling group that was going to be met with a lot of resistance.
00:17:06.018 --> 00:17:13.267
The administration could not move from these talking points, from the signal gate, onto a positive story.
00:17:13.267 --> 00:17:16.835
They had to go dive headfirst straight into the Greenland story.
00:17:16.835 --> 00:17:31.894
Bad luck, bad timing, bad moves, bad response and bad communication by discussing an attack plan on a commercial app and then inadvertently adding a journalist.
00:17:32.474 --> 00:17:37.806
Now denial why do people refuse to acknowledge mistakes?
00:17:37.806 --> 00:17:49.776
Denial it's a psychological strategy to avoid anxiety, emotional pain, shame it's when people don't want to accept uncomfortable truths.
00:17:49.776 --> 00:17:58.960
It's usually considered an immature defense mechanism because it's there to regulate the emotions.
00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:04.217
People do it when they're stressed, when there's fear.
00:18:04.217 --> 00:18:06.417
You know I say fear is behind almost every crisis.
00:18:06.417 --> 00:18:12.200
The denial is something that soothes it because you don't have to face it.
00:18:12.819 --> 00:18:15.681
Now, why do public figures use denial?
00:18:15.681 --> 00:18:20.021
They do it to protect their image and to avoid accountability.
00:18:20.021 --> 00:18:37.355
The cast of characters on that tech staff if you could see their feet under the water, they are peddling like crazy because they are worried about not only their place in the administration, the level of trust that President Trump will have with them.
00:18:37.355 --> 00:18:41.509
Admitting mistakes could harm their reputation or career prospects.
00:18:41.509 --> 00:18:46.926
Avoiding accountability allows them to sidestep any consequences.
00:18:46.926 --> 00:18:58.118
They want to deny that it was classified information because they don't want to have to manage the fallout from that and take the consequence of sharing classified information.
00:18:58.118 --> 00:19:00.069
There actually comes a legal consequence with that.
00:19:00.069 --> 00:19:04.538
There's also psychological vulnerabilities, insecurity, fear of failure, particularly if you're dealing with a narcissist.
00:19:04.538 --> 00:19:07.795
There's also psychological vulnerabilities, insecurity, fear of failure, particularly if you're dealing with a narcissist.
00:19:07.795 --> 00:19:10.005
That's going to be part of the coping mechanism.
00:19:10.005 --> 00:19:14.792
But it is also strategic manipulation.
00:19:14.792 --> 00:19:23.736
They needed to use denial in their defense to just get through this and hope that something else happens in the news cycle.
00:19:23.736 --> 00:19:34.892
Now there is a psychological term when overconfidence in one's abilities can result in denial of limitations or mistakes, and that is the Dunning-Kruger effect.
00:19:34.892 --> 00:19:38.384
How many of you remember that from a college class or from a high school class?
00:19:38.384 --> 00:20:00.970
So that's why you're going to see a lot of denial as a strategic mechanism in the upper levels, like politics and celebrity people in the public eye, and while it does provide temporary relief, it can hinder problems, it leads to long-term damage.
00:20:01.290 --> 00:20:04.037
Let's talk about media ethics and journalistic integrity.
00:20:04.037 --> 00:20:06.422
Did the Atlantic get it right?
00:20:06.422 --> 00:20:07.451
Did they do the right thing?
00:20:07.451 --> 00:20:09.355
Did Jeffrey Goldberg do the right thing?
00:20:09.355 --> 00:20:12.510
Now worth noting, he is the editor-in-chief.
00:20:12.510 --> 00:20:15.696
This isn't a cub reporter who went rogue.
00:20:15.696 --> 00:20:20.444
You know that the Atlantic vetted every single thing that they did.
00:20:20.444 --> 00:20:23.438
He felt and addressed in his piece.
00:20:23.438 --> 00:20:25.203
He was justified.
00:20:25.203 --> 00:20:34.295
He knew, like the Atlantic likely knew, that they were going to face scrutiny regarding the decision to publish the information sensitive military information.
00:20:34.295 --> 00:20:41.054
The magazine defended it as a necessity to inform the public as a potential national security breach.
00:20:41.054 --> 00:20:42.861
I would have to agree with that.
00:20:42.861 --> 00:20:45.871
I mean this is a massive security breach.
00:20:45.871 --> 00:20:47.476
Lives are on the line.
00:20:47.476 --> 00:20:51.288
Also, they chose not to publish sensitive details.
00:20:51.288 --> 00:20:56.063
Eventually it came out because of the denial tactic by the administration.
00:20:56.063 --> 00:21:08.960
But Jeffrey Goldberg stated that they withheld certain information, such as the name of an active CIA officer mentioned in the chat and specific operational details that could genuinely compromise security.
00:21:10.082 --> 00:21:17.862
Now some might argue is he acting as a whistleblower or is it for clout and subscribers?
00:21:17.862 --> 00:21:21.669
Okay, there could be a push there.
00:21:21.669 --> 00:21:24.817
Jeffrey Goldberg was interviewed, it seemed like by everyone.
00:21:24.817 --> 00:21:29.700
He was doing a lot of interviews, you know, first with the Atlantic and then he went everywhere.
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I don't blame the PR department for setting it up they were working overtime as well and there's no doubt that the subscriptions went up because so many people probably even wanted to get behind the paywall and read it.
00:21:42.842 --> 00:21:48.359
They're hoping that people will read it once and then stick with the Atlantic, which likely will happen.
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:58.477
I mean, there's going to be a residual, probably uptick in their subscribers, which is like yay, rah, rah for journalism, because that's an industry that's struggling right now.
00:21:58.477 --> 00:22:03.224
So from an ethical point of view, you do have to give it to Goldberg and the Atlantic.
00:22:03.224 --> 00:22:06.836
They withheld information and he stated.
00:22:06.836 --> 00:22:12.153
Goldberg stated how difficult it was for him to decide what to do and how.
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He really questioned the veracity of what was happening there.
00:22:17.044 --> 00:22:21.894
The veracity of what was happening there and he only fact-checked it.
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When he saw that there was indeed military action is when he decided to publish.
00:22:25.784 --> 00:22:28.109
Now, what are the lessons for communicators?
00:22:28.109 --> 00:22:33.863
If you are part of a communication team, is the cascade of denial and deflection.
00:22:33.863 --> 00:22:43.571
It definitely is a strategic device used to control the narrative, but it always comes with problems.
00:22:43.571 --> 00:22:46.798
It always comes with a consequence.
00:22:46.798 --> 00:22:49.523
Transparency is key.
00:22:49.523 --> 00:22:50.705
It builds trust.
00:22:50.705 --> 00:22:53.351
Obstification erodes it.
00:22:53.351 --> 00:23:03.737
The contrast between the administration downplaying the incident and the detailed operational information that was revealed damages public trust.
00:23:03.737 --> 00:23:05.478
The Republicans took a hit.
00:23:05.478 --> 00:23:07.159
The administration took a hit.
00:23:07.159 --> 00:23:10.020
There's no consistency in your messaging.
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The explanations are shifting.
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You're trying to minimize the seriousness.
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You're creating confusion.
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The seriousness You're creating confusion.
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What that does is undermine credibility of the office.
00:23:20.407 --> 00:23:29.817
People see through it and if you are an administration, you want to understand classification, you want to understand security.
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It's non-negotiable for leadership.
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That goes hand in hand with leadership.
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