294: Behind the Spin: Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni, and the High-Stakes PR Showdown

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to the PR Breakdown.

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I'm your host, molly McPherson, and in this episode we're diving into one of Hollywood's biggest and messiest legal battles, involving Blake Lively, justin Baldoni and the film adaptation of Colleen Hoover's best-selling novel.

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It Ends With Us.

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Now we are talking millions of dollars in lawsuits, accusations of sexual harassment, retaliation claims, alleged smear campaigns and a powerhouse celebrity couple that might tip the scales in one star's favor.

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Now, in this episode, I'm sharing the context clues I've gathered from my online research and full disclosure sources close to the situation who've shed light on how a powerful Hollywood couple and a director who once championed this film ended up embroiled in a fight for credibility.

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And if you want to know the real crisis behind this crisis, then this episode is for you.

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Let's set the stage when you break down the ongoing legal battle between Blake Lively the stage.

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When you break down the ongoing legal battle between Blake Lively, it becomes clear that at the heart of the crisis, two damage reputation.

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Now, despite the gravity of Lively's sexual harassment claims more on that in a bit the public's attention and the press's attention shifted to the behind-the-scenes PR strategies that fuel this feud.

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Now, in my experience, nearly every crisis begins when one side feels powerless after a perceived injustice.

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That frustration often goes public and spirals into the kind of high-profile conflict that we're witnessing now.

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So let's look at the basic timeline.

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It Ends With Us begins as a passion project for Justin Baldoni.

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If you hear interviews from Baldoni about the project, hearing about the book he does admit that there was a lot of commercial viability to the project, but the author, colleen Hoover, allowed him to take control of the title back in 2019.

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She wanted him to bring the movie to life In 2023, blake Lively signs on to star as Lily and at that point everything seems golden.

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August 2024, the release A little bumpier than expected.

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A lot of cracks in the production team's relationship had erupted into a lot of chatter, not only online but in the press.

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We have drops in the press about problems behind the scene.

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At first we don't know where the problems are coming from.

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Then we have our internet TikTok sleuths mixed in with some tabloid drops, people noticing that there doesn't seem to be any conversation or interaction between the co-stars.

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People are pulling out soundbites from interviews.

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When people ask, cast members, notably like Jenny Slate, who's a co-star in the film, was asked directly about Justin Baldoni and she demurred and talked about the process in general.

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So it was clear that something was a mess behind the scenes.

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I published a piece for Forbescom about the behind-the-scenes trouble.

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The title Social Media Hints at Reasons Behind.

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It Ends With Us Cast Riff.

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In this article I mentioned in the first paragraph that the film is a box office hit.

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It raked in a global total of $80 million over the weekend.

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But behind the scenes there was a different story unfolding.

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There were rumors of a rift between Baldoni, who was not only the co-star, also the director and co-star, blake Lively.

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In this piece I highlighted what was happening online.

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There were a lot of clues scattered across social media showing that there was a rift behind the scenes.

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Now, from this article, some of the things that I noted premiere night ghost Baldoni's absence fuels speculation.

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At last week's premiere in New York City, baldoni's absence from key press events and group photos was glaring.

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While Baldoni walked the red carpet with family and friends, lively posed with the cast her husband, ryan Reynolds, his mother and Hugh Jackman.

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Adding to the speculation, lively Baldoni giving separate media interviews.

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Also Colleen Hoover, who was a huge champion of Justin Baldoni in the beginning.

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She handed over this beloved project to Justin Baldoni, after he reached out to her Now, he had read the book and in media interviews he had stated that he had never read a romance title before.

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This was his first, but he said that he was moved by it reached out to Colleen Hoover to acquire the title to be a director of the title.

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At that point, he wasn't set to act in the piece and he did admit that there was commercial viability to this title because it was a hotly, hotly anticipated book when it came out, and so everybody was waiting for this story to end up on the big screen.

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Now, as a side note about authors and self-published authors, colleen Hoover is similar to a lot of other self-published authors out there and I know something a little bit about this because in my work as a crisis communication strategist, I've worked with self-published authors who've been picked up by mainstream publishers because their books seem to capture, you know, either a trope or a mood that hit with a lot of people, particularly coming out of the pandemic In 2020, reading just spiked.

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Now, quick side note here In my work as a crisis communication strategist, I've worked with authors before self-published authors who have kind of made it big time and picked up by a big publishing house.

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I've also worked with publishers.

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Book talk is a thing y'all because there's a lot of passion and public opinion around BookTok.

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It is a very profitable industry because there's a lot of emotion behind it.

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There are a lot of super fans behind a lot of the genres out there.

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Colleen Hoover represents, in my opinion, one of those typical self-published authors who become huge because people find them and then their titles just skyrocket and they're on the New York Times bestselling list.

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Something that I've noticed in my research and in my work that a lot of these titles speak to trauma and stress that the author is able to bring out.

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Many times it's from their own personal experience.

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When they're able to capture a harrowing journey of oftentimes a heroine and they can put it into content that resonates with people, it affords them fans the ability to escape.

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So maybe they just want it for kind of fun, something to read, just to escape from their problems.

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But some people want to escape from real problems.

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They really connect with these authors Colleen Hoover has said you know she's one of these authors who grew up in a very traumatic environment.

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The book it Ends With Us was inspired by Colleen Hoover and her mother, like fleeing an abusive parent-slash-husband situation.

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Like a lot of authors out there, their trauma is put into the book and I mention this because it's important.

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Colleen Hoover felt it was safe to put this book that was written from her perspective, her and her mother's perspective into the hands of Justin Baldoni.

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She trusted Justin Baldoni with this story.

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Now back to the premiere.

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There was a fissure between Colleen Hoover, the author, and Justin Baldoni.

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Hoover was on stage with Blake Lively at the premiere to announce the movie, so the lack of interaction between Hoover and Lively was definitely noted.

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Was definitely noted.

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Also noted was Ryan Reynolds, the spouse of Blake Lively.

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My subtitle here Ryan Reynolds stealing the spotlight.

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It shouldn't be a question mark.

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It should have been an explanation point.

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Lively dropped in People magazine that there was this revelation that Reynolds wrote a pivotal scene and she had dropped during this time, in the weeks after the release, when her PR was going sideways quickly, she made it known that her husband, ryan Reynolds, had penned pivotal scenes within the film.

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Also, if you remember, there was another big premiere the same weekend and that was Deadpool and Wolverine Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman co-star Hugh Jackman's movie.

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That was huge, like that cleared $1 billion global box office less than two weeks after the premiere date.

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So now we have Blake Lively leveraging her husband and Hugh Jackman in her marketing.

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We have Ryan Reynolds being brought into not just the marketing of it Ends With Us, but also the narrative of it Ends with us, and if you watched the press back and forth or social media chatter, you're noticing that there is a breakdown in the relationship.

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The co-stars, for the most part, seem to align themselves with Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds.

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Justin Baldoni did not receive a lot of support.

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Now, in the immediate weeks following the premiere, when Blake Lively was struggling from a public relations perspective, you didn't even need to be a PR practitioner or media savvy, because it was August, which is traditionally a news desert month.

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There's not a lot of things to cover out there.

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Press-wise, there was nothing really political, even though it's a political year and they're still campaigning.

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A lot of reporters are on vacation.

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A lot of editors and news outlets know that other people are on vacation as well.

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August is a huge vacation month, but it's perfect for entertainment PR and it's perfect for movie premieres.

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However, if you remember, at the time, the needle of public opinion was pointed in the favor of Justin Baldoni.

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Blake Lively was the one who was experiencing a lot of the negative publicity.

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It wasn't just from the headlines.

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If you remember, or if you were online at that time, you would notice that there were a lot of media soundbites pulled from interviews that Blake Lively had done in the past where she came off, some might say, rather cold, sometimes a little snarky, sometimes a little bitchy.

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I felt at that time back in August, that this wasn't a story about two feuding co-stars.

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That time, back in August, that this wasn't a story about two feuding co-stars.

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This was a battle of reputation via PR campaigns back and forth.

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Now Ryan Reynolds likely offered to jump in and help out in the market.

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So with this narrative we had the Blake Lively-Ryan Reynolds duo versus Justin Baldoni.

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Justin Baldoni's social media posts at the time were very humble pie.

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He posted video of him being recognized in an airport.

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He was walking with his family.

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Every post and every interview that he was doing was about the movie, praising Blake Lively's work, and he was sidestepping some of the areas, particularly around Ryan Reynolds, but he was trying to be a good guy, at least in the press.

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From Camp Reynolds slash Lively there were a lot of moves.

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Lively.

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There were a lot of moves, drops in magazines, media outlets and also on YouTube itself.

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On Ryan Reynolds' page, he posted this video which, frankly, some people might think it's hysterical.

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They think it is peak, ryan Reynolds, I find it a little cringe.

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Oh God, this is cool.

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It's not every day the husband gets to interview his wife's love interest in a film.

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It's kind of crazy.

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I don't remember seeing this on the schedule.

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Let's dive in, shall we?

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So I saw you posing in a photo with Mrs Reynolds and I'm sorry, what do you call her?

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Do you guys have a nickname or something?

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No, okay, no, just so, it's Mrs.

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Okay, anyway, I, how do you?

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Your ego when Ryan Reynolds is essentially hijacking your movie?

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It is that feeling that, I feel, is the crux of this PR crisis.

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Now, fast forward to December 2024, when Blake Lively and her team and Ryan Reynolds decide to destroy my holiday season and many other people who work in PR.

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But even more than mine, it would be the people who she named in a California Civil Rights Department complaint, claiming sexual harassment and a hostile work environment during the film's production.

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So she named Justin Baldoni, jamie Heath he co-founded Wayfair Studios with Justin Baldoni and a handful of other PR executives.

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Approximately 14 hours later, the New York Times drops a bombshell of a story titled we Can Bury Anyone Inside a Hollywood Smear Machine.

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With that legal filing happening on a Friday before the Christmas holiday, that would be a classic Friday news dump, even though it happened on a Saturday.

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The Friday news dump is a strategy where a big story is dumped over the weekend, citing a lack of news, to promote any story.

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So there's usually skeleton stuff, people aren't going to chat about it, it's a time to let the story die down.

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So by Monday there's already a new story there.

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But it's also used and I would say more in the social media age as a way to get ahead of the story.

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People will do a Friday afternoon sometimes holiday weekend news dump to control the narrative of a story when that story was successful.

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I do think to control the narrative of a story when that story was successful I do think was with this Blake Lively campaign that weekend when it didn't work.

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If you remember, back two years ago Joe Jonas dropped the news about his divorce from Sophie Turner.

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He dropped that over Labor Day weekend and to manipulate the narrative the entire weekend.

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Sophie Turner in her brilliance.

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The narrative the entire weekend.

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Sophie Turner, in her brilliance, said nothing.

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She just let the Jonas machine get themselves all clogged up in the PR works.

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She probably knew something about Joe Jonas that everybody else didn't know, that he would muck up the process somehow.

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Team Jonas did a lot of drops, with very specific tabloids TMZ being one of them trying to control the narrative, and it did not work.

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They backed themselves into the corner and every single time they noticed that the public opinion was shifting away from them and towards Turner.

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It was clear that Team Jonas was trying to smear Sophie Turner.

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So we're seeing the same machinations happen with this.

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Blake Lively, justin Baldoni Hollywood smear machine Fast forward again.

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Lively launches legal proceedings against Baldoni in the Southern District of New York.

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Man, they are busy with Diddy and everybody else.

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My goodness, jay-z.

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So that happened on December 31st.

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In addition to Baldoni, the actress also sued the publicist, melissa Nathan and Jennifer Abel, along with Wayfair Studios and Jed Wallace, independent contractor, was named in the filing.

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He was working for Melissa Nathan.

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Now Melissa Nathan is part of the agency group.

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Wallace has since been removed from Lively's lawsuit, but the PR people remain.

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After that, justin Baldoni fires back with a $250 million lawsuit against the New York Times, accusing them of libel and false light.

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Invasion of privacy for a piece published about the so-called Hollywood smear machine.

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He also sued Lively personally.

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So these two are nowhere near finished with their legal skirmishes Now.

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She alleged three major issues against Justin Baldoni Sexual harassment, she claims Baldoni introduced unscripted sexual content during filming, crossed professional boundaries by improvising physical contact and disregarded protocols such as using a licensed intimacy coordinator.

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Also, a hostile work environment.

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Lively said that Baldoni and the producer, jamie Heath, repeatedly entered her trailer without warning, even while she was breastfeeding, causing her distress and compromising her sense of safety.

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But a big part of that complaint was the retaliatory campaign After the film wrapped.

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Lively alleged that Baldoni's PR team orchestrated a plan to quote bury her reputation.

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Melissa Nathan is behind the agency group.

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There's her team there.

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Ralph Reynolds was drawn into the conflict and confronted Baldoni about the accusations.

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Now, one day after that filing, I mentioned the New York Times piece you know, titled we Can Bury Anyone Inside a Hollywood Smear Machine.

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That title we Can Bury Anyone was lifted from a text from Melissa Nathan which was included in the New York Times story.

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Then, december 31st, new Year's Eve, lively files suit with the Southern District of New York, naming Baldoni, wayfair Studios publicists Melissa Nathan and Jennifer Abel and others as defendants.

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So now she's ratcheting it up in federal court.

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Now, in her statement to the New York Times.

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The language is important because I think it reveals what is really going on here.

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Listen, quote I hope that my legal action helps pull back the curtain on these sinister retaliatory tactics and helps protect others who may be targeted.

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End quote.

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That was just an excerpt from a longer statement.

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Now, from a crisis communication perspective, it's easy to see how such strong allegations overshadow the film's original message, focusing instead on the off-scene drama and turning the conversation into a he-sa she said spectacle.

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But within that state it shows that there is so much focus on the PR and not so much on the sexual harassment.

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Now Justin Baldoni denies every one of Lively's accusations.

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He paints a much different picture, one of a star who's weaponizing her clout and her famous husband's clout to overshadow his role as a director and producer.

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And from Baldoni's point of view, the text messages used against him were cherry-picked, edited or sarcastic in tone.

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But via the New York Times article, he is saying that there was no orchestrated campaign to smear Blake Lively.

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It was standard scenario planning and that the New York Times edited the text in a graphic design to make it appear that it was a part of a bigger vicious smear machine.

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He stated that the film's production company, wayfair, and its principals Baldoni and Heath, and the PR representatives Nathan and and Abel.

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They were asked to provide a quote on the record comment and to notify the times of any inaccuracies by noon eastern standard time the next day on December 21st.

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They had absolutely no time.

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Like they said, they had 14 hours to not only come up with a statement but they had to read the entire article and note any inaccuracies.

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So this Baldoni's lawyer came up with a comment but it didn't give them any time.

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I mean, the damage was done.

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Now an interesting thing to note in the New York Times story three byline One of the reporters, megan Toohey.

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Pulitzer Prize winning reporter, megan Toohey.

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She was a person who, through her reporting, fueled a lot of the Me Too movement and bringing people down, including Harvey Weinstein.

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She is a champion of that Me Too movement, so a choice by the New York Times to include her in this story likely strategic, also in the very complaint that Lively is making against Baldoni and his PR team that they are orchestrating a negative PR smear campaign against Lively Blake.

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Lively herself is utilizing a public relations smear campaign by working in a coordinated effort to drop a story with the New York Times.

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It was approximately a 4,000-word story.

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You do not write that story overnight.

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That is a story that has to be researched, it has to be vetted.

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You need interviews, you have to edit it.

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Every lawyer is going to be looking over every single word.

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Every lawyer is going to be looking over every single word.

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And then to give Baldoni's side less than a day to come up with a response, that is part of a coordinated campaign.

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They were setting Baldoni up to lose and in other parts of his lawsuit he's simply saying that a lot of the things that the Times reported was inaccurate.

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In fact, there was a portion in this New York Times interview, when I read it, that jumped out at me and that is the inclusion of the Norwegian entertainment reporter.

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It says here meanwhile, an online backlash against Ms Lively was underway.

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It is impossible to know how much of the negative publicity was seeded by Ms Nathan, mr Wallace and their team and how much they noticed and amplified On August 10th.

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Kirstie Fla she was the Norwegian entertainment reporter that you likely saw online.

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She uploaded a YouTube video from a 2016 interview in which Ms Lively snapped back when she commented on her baby bump and remained testy for the rest of the conversation.

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So Ms Flaw titled it the Blake Lively interview that made me want to quit my job, and she told the Daily Mail that it's quote.

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It's time that people behaving badly in Hollywood, or anywhere else for that matter, gets called out for it.

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I remember seeing video and that definitely influenced my opinion of Blake Lively at the time.

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So, after the publication of the New York Times article on Saturday, kirstie Fla if I'm saying her name correctly contacted the Times and said she had not participated in any orchestrated effort to harm Ms Lively's reputation.

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In the email, she said that she had resurfaced the 2016 interview independently this past August.

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It was neither coordinated nor influenced by anyone associated with the alleged campaign.

00:24:38.971 --> 00:24:40.721
She wrote Okay.

00:24:40.721 --> 00:24:45.688
So New York Times adds that into the story, following paragraph from the original piece.

00:24:45.688 --> 00:24:49.371
It wasn't the first time she had posted a video aligned with a client of Ms Nathan.

00:24:49.371 --> 00:24:58.932
In 2022, in the midst of Mr Depp's legal battle with Ms Heard, ms Fla posted clips of her interviews with the actor tagged hashtag justice for Johnny Depp.

00:24:58.932 --> 00:25:05.497
In my opinion, when I saw that, I thought that is speculative reporting.

00:25:05.696 --> 00:25:08.763
Now let's talk about the cancel culture fallout.

00:25:08.763 --> 00:25:16.361
If you are someone who has sided with Blake Lively, for instance, and no shame whatever.

00:25:16.361 --> 00:25:26.540
But if you're someone who really feels that Blake Lively was wronged or you're really supporting the sexual harassment claims, I think it's important to note the fallout.

00:25:26.540 --> 00:25:31.405
Cancel culture is still alive and well because it happened to Justin Baldoni is still alive and well because it happened to Justin Baldoni.

00:25:31.405 --> 00:25:49.260
So, in rapid succession, this is what happened when this story came out, his podcast host, liz Plank, exited the podcast WME.

00:25:49.260 --> 00:25:51.150
His talent agency dropped him immediately and the Vital Voices Award was rescinded to him.

00:25:51.150 --> 00:25:55.525
So that was an award for his advocacy on women's issue that was pulled once the loss hit the news.

00:25:55.525 --> 00:26:01.794
By Monday, all these things had happened to Justin Baldone and it happened because of claims that were made.

00:26:01.794 --> 00:26:14.733
They were never proven claims For people who are watching Beyonce perform at an NFL halftime show produced by her husband, jay-z.

00:26:14.733 --> 00:26:25.806
With what he's going through and what he's been accused of in lawsuits tying him to Sean Diddy Combs, it really makes you look now at what happened to Justin Baldoni differently.

00:26:25.806 --> 00:26:31.905
These are claims from a complaint, a legal complaint and he lost a lot.

00:26:32.426 --> 00:26:34.813
Now let's talk about the legal versus the PR strategy.

00:26:34.813 --> 00:26:51.730
Now, in my work as a crisis communication strategist, when I'm working with a client who is dealing with a cancel culture type of a crisis or they've been called out for something, oftentimes they'll tell me that they want to take legal action, they want to sue.

00:26:51.730 --> 00:26:53.760
They can't say this about me.

00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:55.124
It happens a lot.

00:26:55.124 --> 00:27:00.394
There is legal, but also there's using legal as a PR strategy.

00:27:00.394 --> 00:27:17.825
If you look at this case closely and you look at the specific charges and where they are resting where Lively is resting a lot of claims and her energy and her team's energy it's around the PR campaign.

00:27:17.825 --> 00:27:21.192
It really isn't as much about the sexual harassment.

00:27:21.192 --> 00:27:30.785
So when you think of public figures in a lawsuit, there's a very high bar that you have to meet in order to prove harm.

00:27:30.785 --> 00:27:34.913
So when you're in PR, you know that this is very tricky territory.

00:27:34.913 --> 00:27:49.913
When people want to sue, I always, always steer them away from a legal action because to me it's very reactionary, because usually things are never 100% right and 100% wrong.

00:27:49.913 --> 00:27:54.662
There's messiness on both sides and it's all just going to come out.

00:27:54.662 --> 00:28:02.421
You've truly been defamed and there is significant damage, then a lawsuit is your only recourse.

00:28:02.421 --> 00:28:18.567
For Justin Baldoni, suing Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds and her team makes sense, because he lost almost everything in the course of one weekend because of Blake Lively's not even the lawsuit, this was just the complaint.

00:28:18.567 --> 00:28:21.093
He lost everything from the complaint.

00:28:21.500 --> 00:28:34.713
Now that you've made it this far, I want to reveal what I think is the core of this entire crisis for Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, and it's not from Justin Baldoni or Blake Lively.

00:28:34.713 --> 00:28:37.545
It is the Ryan Reynolds factor.

00:28:37.545 --> 00:28:51.170
Now, officially he doesn't have a producer credit in the film, but we do know that he wrote or revised some key scenes After all, that's what Blake Lively told People magazine Specifically a rooftop moment where Lily first meets Ryle.

00:28:51.170 --> 00:28:53.534
That's the character who Baldoni portrays.

00:28:53.534 --> 00:29:03.167
So, depending on whose account, you believe, reynolds' involvement either saved the script from disaster or overshadowed Baldoni's creative control.

00:29:03.167 --> 00:29:08.160
Add to that that Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds a Hollywood power couple.

00:29:08.859 --> 00:29:12.421
When you're Justin Baldoni, this might feel like a losing battle.

00:29:12.421 --> 00:29:20.803
You have one well-connected actor with an A-list spouse, both commanding huge fan bases, and Ryan Reynolds commanding a huge paycheck.

00:29:20.803 --> 00:29:25.584
I often see this in a crisis situation all the time.

00:29:25.584 --> 00:29:29.423
Who has more brand equity and star power often has an automatic advantage in the media.

00:29:29.423 --> 00:29:31.865
Star power often has an automatic advantage in the media.

00:29:31.865 --> 00:29:38.925
If you're the lesser known figure, no matter how genuine your story, you risk getting drowned out or labeled the villain.

00:29:38.925 --> 00:29:51.509
And in the case of Justin Baldoni, he was already playing a villain in the movie, so he was likely far more sensitive to being cast as one.

00:29:52.888 --> 00:30:05.104
But it's Ryan Reynolds and the absence of Ryan Reynolds really in this lawsuit that tells me he is the one who is propelling that, he is the one who is fueling a lot of this.

00:30:05.104 --> 00:30:07.815
Now, this is no hate on Ryan Reynolds.

00:30:07.815 --> 00:30:11.763
I don't have an opinion about Ryan or Blake or Justin.

00:30:11.763 --> 00:30:13.673
I'm not on any side of it.

00:30:13.673 --> 00:30:19.144
I'm on the side of PR, because this is a PR war.

00:30:19.144 --> 00:30:28.593
At the heart of this PR war, blake Lively is referencing messages between publicists in a plot to bury her reputation.

00:30:28.593 --> 00:30:43.041
I've seen the actual text or at least what is being sent to me as the actual text that was used from the PR team.

00:30:43.041 --> 00:30:49.038
I think Ryan Reynolds is fueling the campaign against Justin Baldone.

00:30:49.038 --> 00:30:59.329
I think Ryan Reynolds wanted to wrest control of this film and hijack it to be able to market Blake and Ryan together.

00:30:59.329 --> 00:31:02.921
He did not want Justin Baldone to have the power in this movie.

00:31:03.369 --> 00:31:12.782
The heart of the PR war is Blake Lively's complaint referencing the messages between publicist Jennifer Abel and Melissa Nathland and, I think, the sexual harassment allegations.

00:31:12.782 --> 00:31:17.498
Justin Baldoni has denied each one of them.

00:31:17.498 --> 00:31:24.972
Now, if they're true, if they're proven true, that's going to be a significant story and that's one that should be the primary story.

00:31:24.972 --> 00:31:28.755
But the heart of this crisis is the PR war.

00:31:28.755 --> 00:31:40.563
Blake Lively's complaint references messages between publicist Jennifer Abel and Melissa Nathan, plus executive Jamie Heath, allegedly plotting how to bury Lively's reputation.

00:31:40.563 --> 00:31:42.023
How to bury Lively's reputation.

00:31:42.023 --> 00:31:48.587
She said in her lawsuit that one text apparently reads we can bury anyone, which probably became the headline for the New York Times piece.

00:31:48.587 --> 00:31:58.417
However, when you see these actual texts and I've seen the text they're taken wildly out of context.

00:31:58.417 --> 00:31:59.662
You know they never say the word smear campaign.

00:31:59.662 --> 00:32:03.420
There was no actual smear campaign that was ever launched.

00:32:03.420 --> 00:32:13.054
But from a crisis perspective, even standard crisis scenario planning, once a text message sees the light of day, the average person is going to assume the worst.

00:32:13.054 --> 00:32:25.563
And when you have a newspaper using graphic design and pulling out pieces of text to format it a certain way to frame the story.

00:32:25.563 --> 00:32:28.753
Of a certain way, it's just a lose-lose for PR.

00:32:28.753 --> 00:32:40.737
The press picked up the story and it became a huge story that immediately labeled not only Justin Baldoni but the PR industry really as evil.

00:32:40.737 --> 00:32:52.955
Everything looks damning but for your consideration, megan Toohey was a choice as a reporter.

00:32:52.955 --> 00:32:56.083
She was a perfect intermediary for Blake Lively's team.

00:32:56.083 --> 00:33:01.657
She was behind Harvey Weinstein's downfall that helped fuel Me Too.

00:33:01.657 --> 00:33:06.144
That was a deliberate, intentional choice to use her.

00:33:06.849 --> 00:33:13.808
If you read the complaints really on both sides you see a lot of earned media happening.

00:33:13.808 --> 00:33:16.854
You see a lot of pitching and planting of stories.

00:33:16.854 --> 00:33:22.361
That's going to happen in any type of you know, big campaign like this.

00:33:22.361 --> 00:33:33.191
But the accusation, one term that is being thrown around, is astroturfing Blake Lively accusing Baldoni's crisis team of astroturfing her.

00:33:33.191 --> 00:33:33.633
Well, one.

00:33:33.633 --> 00:33:35.904
That's not even the correct definition of astroturfing.

00:33:36.346 --> 00:33:44.141
Astroturfing is considered a like a deceptive widespread campaign that's rooted in advocacy.

00:33:44.141 --> 00:33:51.375
So think a renewable action plan, think renewable energy.

00:33:51.375 --> 00:33:57.711
Let's say they wanted to have a blanket, a marketing, advertising, PR campaign.

00:33:57.711 --> 00:34:03.721
But in their PR campaign they create websites and have different narratives.

00:34:03.721 --> 00:34:08.418
That may not be true and they just want to just plaster it everywhere.

00:34:08.418 --> 00:34:21.235
It's like the astroturf is like artificial grass, so they're putting artificial stories around truthful stories to create negative publicity, to create negative press for fossil fuels.

00:34:21.235 --> 00:34:23.541
That's what astroturfing is.

00:34:23.541 --> 00:34:29.818
It isn't planting negative stories about a person or trying to hype up your client.

00:34:29.818 --> 00:34:30.800
That's wrong.

00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:48.217
Justin Baldoni and his team and his lawyers have been very adamant that Blake Lively and her team is off the mark in what they try to do and they're saying in fact it was Blake Lively's side who was planting a lot of the negative stories against Justin Baldoni.

00:34:48.217 --> 00:34:53.780
So in the end it comes down to this that the sense of injustice is what fuels the crisis.

00:34:54.461 --> 00:35:03.722
In addition to Ryan Reynolds hijacking a lot of the market and trying to demean Justin Baldoni, there was a scene.

00:35:03.722 --> 00:35:16.215
Allegedly Justin Baldoni said that he was called to the penthouse of Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds dressed him down in front of other celebrities, like he really called him out.

00:35:16.215 --> 00:35:21.117
That type of a scene is going to create that sense of injustice.

00:35:21.117 --> 00:35:33.219
So for a Justin Baldoni, when he sees what Ryan Reynolds is likely trying to do, it's not unusual that there would be a retaliatory feeling there.

00:35:33.219 --> 00:35:42.626
But through these texts that have now come out in the countersuit of Justin Baldoni, he's saying who is behind this campaign.

00:35:42.626 --> 00:35:55.617
I do not want to bury, you know, blake Lively, you know this looks really, really bad, but it was that injustice that created the fissure between Baldoni and Blake Lively.

00:35:55.617 --> 00:35:58.670
And when you say Blake Lively you say Ryan Reynolds at the same time.

00:35:58.670 --> 00:36:07.436
And when it comes to co-stars, behind the scenes, when you look at text messages, apparently there wasn't any conflict whatsoever.

00:36:07.436 --> 00:36:08.217
Behind the scenes.

00:36:08.217 --> 00:36:10.811
Nobody had a problem with Justin Baldoni.

00:36:10.811 --> 00:36:22.798
If you were to believe a lot of these text messages that are coming out and a lot of the stories that are coming, a lot of that was fabricated and Baldoni's camp is saying it was fabricated by Lively's publicists.

00:36:22.798 --> 00:36:24.483
They were planting those stories.

00:36:24.483 --> 00:36:29.217
So always there's a sense of injustice that fuels a PR campaign.

00:36:29.217 --> 00:36:35.077
Justin Baldoni sensed it from Ryan Reynolds, but Ryan Reynolds probably also sensed it as well.

00:36:35.077 --> 00:36:36.782
He thought he may have thought.

00:36:36.782 --> 00:36:40.958
You know what this guy doesn't deserve to have all the fame from this.

00:36:40.958 --> 00:36:42.963
We want to wrestle some of it.

00:36:42.963 --> 00:36:45.414
I want to give Blake some of that glow.

00:36:46.096 --> 00:36:58.297
In the weeks following the premiere, when Blake Lively was really through it, when she was going through the hard time over this movie release and all the negative PR, ryan Reynolds jumped in.

00:36:58.297 --> 00:37:03.306
He wanted to use his star power to shift the balance back to them.

00:37:03.306 --> 00:37:06.092
He was planting stories as well.

00:37:06.092 --> 00:37:13.960
You saw, right in the middle of all of this, he sat down for an interview with People Magazine, in publicity, about a story talking about his father and Alzheimer's.

00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:19.090
He also spoke with Willie Geist on the Today Show about that, but Ryan Reynolds' father had died nine years earlier.

00:37:19.090 --> 00:37:26.976
So, yes, it's nice to highlight Alzheimer's and what we can do to prevent Alzheimer's and how we can focus on fundraising, sure.

00:37:26.976 --> 00:37:32.635
But why are we doing it at the very week that your wife is at her PR nadir?

00:37:32.635 --> 00:37:35.539
That's publicity.

00:37:35.539 --> 00:37:39.632
That is campaigning to support Blake Lively.

00:37:39.632 --> 00:37:46.510
So that star power shift was happening and it was really being driven by Ryan Reynolds.

00:37:46.510 --> 00:37:49.757
Three and this is incredibly important.

00:37:49.858 --> 00:37:51.521
Pr ethics matter.

00:37:51.521 --> 00:37:55.291
Pitching the press a story is not unethical.

00:37:55.291 --> 00:38:01.358
Planting stories that are true, not unethical.

00:38:01.358 --> 00:38:05.563
Planting negative stories unethical.

00:38:05.563 --> 00:38:15.264
Any type of transactional social media manipulation, social engineering, social manipulation I find it unethical.

00:38:15.264 --> 00:38:18.456
But a smear tactic is unethical.

00:38:18.456 --> 00:38:23.605
But campaigning for your clients, well, that's just PR.

00:38:26.391 --> 00:38:29.277
Next, legal actions amplify everything.

00:38:29.277 --> 00:38:30.298
As I mentioned.

00:38:30.298 --> 00:38:36.599
So many people, when they're at the center of a PR crisis, they reflexively want to sue.

00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:37.641
But you know what I noticed?

00:38:37.641 --> 00:38:41.637
The people who want to sue for defamation or libel, you know, whatever it is.

00:38:41.637 --> 00:38:56.159
They usually have their hands in some part of the crisis not fully, but there is some fault there, some gaps, and they don't want to have to acknowledge those gaps, oftentimes so they want to resort to defamation.

00:38:56.159 --> 00:39:01.889
I mean rarely it does happen where I've worked with clients and they want to sue for defamation.

00:39:01.889 --> 00:39:04.637
I think, oh, okay, well, you probably have a case here, you know, based on this.

00:39:04.637 --> 00:39:09.958
But for the most part, just a genuine, authentic state is going to get you through.

00:39:09.958 --> 00:39:17.829
But when you see a lot of these knee jerk legal moves, look to that being not necessarily a legal move but also a PR move.

00:39:17.829 --> 00:39:20.811
And, lastly, collaboration can devolve.

00:39:21.192 --> 00:39:31.478
It Ends With Us started as a collaboration with Colleen Hoover and Justin Baldoni, the two of them working together to bring this very important personal story of Hoover to life.

00:39:31.478 --> 00:39:33.661
She trusted Justin Baldoni.

00:39:33.661 --> 00:39:35.802
They brought on Blake Lively.

00:39:35.802 --> 00:39:40.025
Justin Baldoni probably saw in her that she was perfect casting.

00:39:40.025 --> 00:39:46.255
She comes with the glow of Ryan Reynolds, but also she happens to come with song from her buddy, taylor Swift.

00:39:46.255 --> 00:39:50.510
She would be a name who would help make that movie viable.

00:39:50.510 --> 00:39:58.411
He said he wanted her, you know, and he certainly paid for that, but collaborations can fall apart.

00:39:58.411 --> 00:40:25.141
If you find yourself in the middle of a collaboration that's falling apart, if you find yourself in the middle of a collaboration that's falling apart, look to this case study the Baldoni-Lively case study and look of support.

00:40:25.141 --> 00:40:37.043
Within days of her complaint coming out, gwyneth Paltrow, amy Schumer supported her People who also deal with some polarizing press out there and feedback.

00:40:37.043 --> 00:40:41.822
Paltrow included a link to Blake Lively's hair care line off of a coop.

00:40:41.822 --> 00:40:46.938
Now in the middle of it is Colleen Hoover seeing one of her titles completely blow up.

00:40:46.938 --> 00:40:49.813
There also is a question of you know what happens with?

00:40:49.813 --> 00:40:51.317
It Ends With Us in the Marketplace.

00:40:51.317 --> 00:40:54.552
It's on Netflix right now, but how well is it doing?

00:40:54.612 --> 00:41:05.025
How many people watch that film and see Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni as two sparring co-stars and not as characters in a book?

00:41:05.025 --> 00:41:13.425
This saga is a textbook example of how a project with noble intentions can go completely awry.

00:41:13.425 --> 00:41:16.001
Here we have a book about domestic violence.

00:41:16.001 --> 00:41:32.871
There could have been so much conversation about that topic within the release and premiere of this movie and the success of this movie and then going to streaming, but instead the conversation is just about the breakdown between the two co-stars.

00:41:32.871 --> 00:41:42.864
I mean it was derailed by this perfect storm of ego and personal conflicts and power plays and PR miscalculations.

00:41:42.864 --> 00:41:57.155
It's ridiculous for one, but for me it underscores also the importance of ethical and sound crisis communication.

00:41:57.175 --> 00:41:59.659
What this case needed was authenticity.

00:41:59.659 --> 00:42:01.842
That's what was missing.

00:42:01.842 --> 00:42:05.932
No one ever heard directly from Blake Lively.

00:42:05.932 --> 00:42:07.076
No one ever heard directly from Justin Belton.

00:42:07.076 --> 00:42:21.001
We had these planted stories, we had these drops, we had news stories like the New York Times, we had legal filings, we have social media and public opinion and then all the fallout in the press, but we still haven't heard from Blake Lively.

00:42:21.001 --> 00:42:23.335
We still haven't heard really from Justin Baldoni.

00:42:23.335 --> 00:42:37.398
If we could hear from one of them and we likely won't Now I would suspect that we would probably hear from Justin Baldoni before we hear from Blake Lively, because Blake Lively likely doesn't want to speak to any of this.

00:42:38.121 --> 00:42:43.097
Legal experts now say that the case might head to trial because the personal animosity.

00:42:43.097 --> 00:42:51.835
Both sides claim they have receipts, text messages, emails, behind-the-scenes anecdotes and neither party appears eager to settle quietly.

00:42:51.835 --> 00:42:56.492
There's also the question of what happens to it Ends With Us in the marketplace.

00:42:56.492 --> 00:42:58.159
It's on Netflix right now.

00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:06.315
When you watch it, are you watching the characters of Lily Ryle or are you seeing the conflict between Justin and Blake?

00:43:06.315 --> 00:43:13.737
Colleen Hoover has expressed unwavering support for Blake Lively, but we haven't heard much about her stance since the lawsuit.

00:43:13.737 --> 00:43:15.621
But will that change?

00:43:15.621 --> 00:43:18.717
And Colleen Hoover has a lot more titles that are coming out Meanwhile.

00:43:18.777 --> 00:43:26.976
Fans of the book are in for this moral dilemma Watch the film to support Hoover's message or boycott it due to the alleged misconduct.

00:43:27.938 --> 00:43:31.992
So look at how many people are hurt by this PR campaign.

00:43:31.992 --> 00:43:43.536
So this saga is a textbook example of how a project with noble intentions raising awareness for domestic violence can be derailed by personal conflicts, power plays and PR miscalculations.

00:43:43.536 --> 00:43:50.222
For me, it underscores one eternal lesson of crisis communication, and that is clarity.

00:43:50.222 --> 00:43:55.623
Authenticity and sincerity can often diffuse the biggest controversies before they spiral.

00:43:55.623 --> 00:44:05.005
Conversely, if you feel powerless or disrespected, you might respond with that nuclear option you know, like a lawsuit.

00:44:05.005 --> 00:44:09.137
But that choice might unleash even more chaos.

00:44:09.137 --> 00:44:21.036
If nothing else, this is a case study in how the perfect storm of high-profile stars, a beloved source, novel and behind-the-scenes tension can explode into a full-blown crisis.

00:44:21.036 --> 00:44:34.724
But what is missing which I think is the reason why it's still fueled to this day, is one of the most important tenets principles of good PO, and that's accountability.

00:44:34.724 --> 00:44:45.726
It's just admitting a downfall, a shortcoming where we might have done it differently, a shortcoming where we might have done it differently, a gap.

00:44:45.726 --> 00:44:54.945
Whatever it is, an authentic interview explaining what happened.

00:44:54.945 --> 00:44:55.829
That would have gone a long way.

00:44:58.110 --> 00:44:59.695
I want to thank you for tuning into the PR Breakdown.

00:44:59.695 --> 00:45:12.755
If you found today's dive into the lively Baldoni showdown helpful or eye-opening, please share this episode with a friend or colleague and make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss future episodes on media literacy, pr fiascos and crisis management tips.

00:45:12.755 --> 00:45:15.364
And I would like to hear your thoughts.

00:45:15.364 --> 00:45:19.054
Do you think lawsuits solve reputation problems?

00:45:19.054 --> 00:45:27.322
Will the reputation problems of Justin baldoni and blake lively be solved by these lawsuits, or do they just pour gasoline on the fire?

00:45:27.322 --> 00:45:33.864
So you can drop me a message on my social channels and we can keep that conversation going.

294: Behind the Spin: Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni, and the High-Stakes PR Showdown

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