272: Behind the Broadcast: Expert Tips for a Memorable Media Interview

Molly McPherson [00:00:12]:

And it's Illumina, right?

David [00:00:14]:

Yeah. Illumina. Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:00:15]:

Okay.

David [00:00:15]:

Illumina, I just lost your video.

Molly McPherson [00:00:18]:

Oh, so did I. Where'd my video go? Oh, I hit it accidentally. That's.

David [00:00:21]:

Oh, yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:00:23]:

See, I'm all over the place.

David [00:00:24]:

No, it's okay.

Molly McPherson [00:00:25]:

Oh, my goodness.

David [00:00:26]:

It's okay.

Molly McPherson [00:00:28]:

All right. All right, David, I want to welcome you to the podcast. You are the global head of external communication at Illumina. Tell me about your job in one sentence or less.

David [00:00:41]:

I handle everything public relations and social media that comes out of any branch of Illumina. We're the world's leader in dna sequencing machines, so anything that's external that you would see in the public comes out of my team.

Molly McPherson [00:00:56]:

That sounds fascinating, and I'm sure you are spectacular at that job. But, you know, that's not the reason why you're here.

David [00:01:05]:

No.

Molly McPherson [00:01:06]:

Okay, David, this is the reason why I love having people like you on this podcast, because you're like me. I can tell. I follow you on social. I know your groove. I know your background. I think we think somewhat similarly. I love that you work in pr, but you got your start in broadcast and journalism.

David [00:01:26]:

I did. I worked for ten years as a tv news producer, and I was on air every once in a while.

Molly McPherson [00:01:33]:

Okay, so briefly, so where did you start, which market, and where did you end up?

David [00:01:38]:

So I had a little bit of a weird past. I actually started at KTLA five in Los Angeles. I went to school at USC. I started interning there. And then the summer between my junior and senior year, they needed someone to fill in for someone on maternity leave, and I started working there and I just didn't stop. And I started as an entertainment producer for Sam Rubin, who, you might know, he's lovely and awesome. And I got to do the Oscars and the Golden Globes and the Emmys, and I did all the LA stuff. And then, ironically, I got tired of the 365 days of sunshine because this is Chicago and I missed the seasons.

Molly McPherson [00:02:11]:

Yes.

David [00:02:12]:

So then I moved to Seattle, where I worked at the CBS affiliate. I did the morning.

Molly McPherson [00:02:16]:

Wait, CBS King?

David [00:02:18]:

Cairo.

Molly McPherson [00:02:19]:

Cairo.

David [00:02:20]:

Cairo.

Molly McPherson [00:02:21]:

Okay.

David [00:02:21]:

Cairo, seven. No, it's fine. So I was there. I did the morning show. I worked the overnight shift, which is tough, but I did it. And I was young and working in a big market, so I knew that that's what I had to do.

Molly McPherson [00:02:32]:

I worked with. Wait a minute, wait a minute. That was your first big person job?

David [00:02:36]:

My first big person job was.

Molly McPherson [00:02:38]:

Okay, so what market is Seattle? What number is that?

David [00:02:40]:

Twelve or 13. It was you. Thank you. It was very odd, but I had the experience at KTLA, and USC has a great journalism school, so it was a lot of sink or swim, though. I mean, the first six months there, I was like, oh, I don't really know if I can move fast enough, and I don't know what I'm doing because it was a very fast paced morning show. Right?

Molly McPherson [00:02:59]:

Yeah.

David [00:02:59]:

And Seattle has a lot of news, and there's always some kind of Pacific Northwest tie to everything. And then I moved to Philadelphia. I worked at Channel six Action News, which is one of the biggest. Give me the affiliate there, WPVI, ABC.

Molly McPherson [00:03:11]:

Okay, so you went from. I'm sorry, did you say twelve?

David [00:03:14]:

No, I went from, like, twelve or 13 to four.

Molly McPherson [00:03:16]:

You went twelve or 13 to four? That doesn't typically happen unless it's in a movie.

David [00:03:22]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:03:23]:

Are you just that spectacular of a.

David [00:03:25]:

No, it's all timing, right? We know that about this whole career. It's all timing. So I was looking to leave Seattle because I wanted to move a little closer to home. I'd actually interviewed at every station in Chicago, could not even find a freelance job because no one leaves those stations. And then an alum of USC was leaving WPVI in Philadelphia. I'd never been there. I didn't know anything about the mid Atlantic, but I was like, sure, it's a huge station. Big number one station in a huge market.

David [00:03:54]:

So I was like, let's give it a shot. And I was there. The pope came, the DNC was there. We had some crazy snowstorms. It was a huge opportunity that I didn't know until I got into it, because then also the 2016 election, it all came down in Pennsylvania. Right? There was a lot of stuff going on there, and I loved it.

Molly McPherson [00:04:16]:

You're a Chicago boy. Did you start eating hoogies when you.

David [00:04:19]:

Were, oh, wawa is life. I love it. If I wasn't wearing this, I would be wearing my wawa shirt. I love Wawa. And so, yes, I'm a big hoagie person. Cheesesteaks.

Molly McPherson [00:04:33]:

Are you went, did you go then to Philly to national?

David [00:04:39]:

Yeah, I went to Washington, DC to be a producer at.

Molly McPherson [00:04:44]:

Oh, and then you went to DC.

David [00:04:45]:

And then I went to DC at the network, and then I went to CBS in New York. So I got a full taste of network know. I did the White House pool. I did other pool travel. It's funny because I was hired to kind of be like the breaking news producer in the mid Atlantic because they had everyone who could do White House stuff. But what happens if they're flooding in? Like, you still cover a region of the country, right? And then I got sucked into White House pool because logistics are a strong point of know. And then you're just doing everything right. And it was the Trump administration, and nothing ends.

David [00:05:19]:

And I'm going to Singapore and Vietnam and Finland and all these crazy places, and it was so much fun. But I was also never, that's the upside down.

Molly McPherson [00:05:30]:

Well, here you are at home, and.

David [00:05:32]:

Here I am with me right now.

Molly McPherson [00:05:34]:

Yes. Which I appreciate. Well, people who know me and know me well know I love television news. I love television news, scandal. But I'm a Gen Xer. And when I went to school, it was all about broadcast. I broadcast news. So this has never left me.

Molly McPherson [00:05:58]:

And just as a fun aside, I met with my alma mater last week, and I'm going to be doing something with them promotionally. They're promoting now this new emerging media program. That's cool. And they were asking about what I did as far as journals and went back in the day I graduated 1991, and it just occurred to me then as I was speaking with them. So what I was doing back in the classes I took, I was doing.

David [00:06:28]:

Real to real, right.

Molly McPherson [00:06:31]:

But the same thing that I was doing when I was in college, I'm doing right now on TikTok. It's still broadcast.

David [00:06:37]:

Same thing.

Molly McPherson [00:06:38]:

It's still broadcast.

David [00:06:39]:

Yes. It's still the idea of editing. It's still the idea of putting together a story, knowing how to put a story together, knowing how to get a sound bite out. The skills that I learned in broadcast news have never left me. And the biggest one I use all the time is writing fast.

Molly McPherson [00:06:55]:

Yes. You have to be a good writer.

David [00:06:58]:

Right. And fast. If there's breaking news, like the amount of times I threw my show out the window, five minutes to air, and then you're like, breaking news, da da da da. You have to know how to be adaptable.

Molly McPherson [00:07:11]:

Yes. Well, and tell me. So last night, I was speaking to someone who works in the news business, and we were just talking about younger people getting into news, and he was saying how important writing is. So important, all about the writing, isn't it?

David [00:07:28]:

Yes.

Molly McPherson [00:07:28]:

Do you think it's a lost art now with people who you work with, or are the up and coming students and journalists to be like, are they good writers?

David [00:07:39]:

No. I think that there are some people who are really important. They've emphasized writing. But I was lucky enough in my career to have people who really emphasized writing? The tease. Why do people want to stick around, right? Like the presentation of it all. Listen, tv news. Now, you look at local tv stations are producing 13, 14 hours of local news a day, right? Because it's cheaper than syndicated programming and you've already got the anchors there. So now who might just be doing the five and the six is doing the five, the six a half hour at 830 on the other channel, the ten and the eleven, the cut ins, all this.

David [00:08:18]:

And I saw that kind of when I was going through tv news because I started in seattle in 2012, and then as I progressed through and we got closer to like, 2016, 2018, that's when digital really came in. We were doing digital cut ins specifically for the mobile app or online. And then when your attention gets spread out, no longer is it the 11:00 p.m. Producer has a 30 minutes window to care about, right? Like everyone has to be feeding the news all the time, 24/7 it's a brand. It's not just a station anymore. And writing can get lost in that. I mean, listen, we both know sometimes writing falls to the wayside because you got to get something out. But I don't know how much of an emphasis, there is an emphasis on speed and doing more with less, not so much the quality of it anymore.

David [00:09:06]:

And I watch local news like, I still watch Channel seven here in New York. I watch Channel four. I still have friends who work all over the place, and I love local news. But sometimes I'm like, I'll watch. And I'm like, ooh, I would have written that a little differently, or like, yikes.

Molly McPherson [00:09:18]:

Yeah. Now we're going to get into three areas, but before we do that, I'm going to ask you one more question about local news.

David [00:09:25]:

Sure.

Molly McPherson [00:09:25]:

So you and I are going to talk about, you know, what it takes to be a good guest, a good interview guest when you are being interviewed. And then we're also going to talk about some of the little pr moves that you've seen, because now you've been on both sides, as have I. And then we are going to spotlight an interview that you and I both had a fascination with, I believe. No, I think you dm me right after that interview.

David [00:09:56]:

I did.

Molly McPherson [00:09:56]:

You were giving me insight.

David [00:09:57]:

I did. I saw it and I saw your comments and I was like, yeah. I thought it was an interesting positioning of how they did it all. Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:10:05]:

Yes. And I may or may not have said on a TikTok what you told me. I did not give any that's okay. I just said sources say that this may or may not happen, but before we move off, in terms of news right now, what do you think is the relevance? So I worked in news television news back in the late 80s, early ninety s, and then I did a quick stint in 2008.

David [00:10:36]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:10:37]:

Where do you see news from a national and local point of view? Its relevance, permanence, anything?

David [00:10:45]:

Yeah, I think local news is actually more relevant than national news because you're seeing the trust kind of shift on all the networks. I covered the presidential election in 2016. I covered it in 2020. I saw the trust of regular people erode as you're trying to set up interviews with voters in Virginia or Ohio and everyone's like, tv news is evil. You guys are just going to spin what I'm going to say. Local news still has the power to know your local city council people, the mayors, the governors and smart politicians engage local news stations because that's where they're actually going to get the platforms to talk and speak to the people who are their constituents. National news is great and I think it's great for a variety of things, but it's also become like the CNNs and the MSNBCs of the world are more relevant because people are tuning in whenever. I don't think that there are a lot of people who are necessarily, it's a nice thing to have on in the background, but I don't have appointment viewing.

David [00:11:48]:

Growing up, I watched the Today show every single day, Matt, Katie Ann, every day. Now if I'm up at seven, yeah, I'll have something on in the background, but I'm not like waking up to see what the news is. I'm going to my phone first. Right. And seeing, okay, what are the push alerts I got? What are people saying? And so it's kind of like now tv news is an extension of the digital platform that is online. Yes, it's hard.

Molly McPherson [00:12:17]:

I absolutely agree with you. And I'm like you. I mean, I was a tv ophile. I was a big Today show viewer myself constantly. Like I think 2007, 2008, I knew all of it. But now it doesn't have relevance to me. Local is stronger to me than national. And national has these messy storylines.

Molly McPherson [00:12:40]:

And I don't know if you heard this, that the Today show is having some friction in there. There might be some people being let go soon.

David [00:12:46]:

Oh, I mean, I've heard that today shows had friction. Mean, here's the thing, every morning show has friction. Right?

Molly McPherson [00:12:53]:

Yes.

David [00:12:54]:

Apple TV would not have gotten Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon to do a story about that. If it wasn't an interesting and dramatic business to be in, though, NBC, I.

Molly McPherson [00:13:04]:

Do think they have a little too many people on in the morning, but I think it's because they have a bunch of people with kind of pablum personalities all in there at once. But that's just my, that's just my opinion. Okay. You and I could go on and on and on. You and I could probably do an hour just on Matt.

David [00:13:20]:

I know. Very quick question about Matt Lauer. Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:13:24]:

Okay. You know, most people couldn't have this conversation for 30 seconds with me.

David [00:13:28]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:13:29]:

Matt Lauer, and we know what happened to him is that he was exposed for having a relationship with producers. Producers. One of the producers came forward with that information and he was let go with them like that. They called him in and said, you're out the door. And we heard the rumors. He alleged to have a lock on.

David [00:13:54]:

His button, the button to show the button that closed the door.

Molly McPherson [00:13:58]:

Could that even be true?

David [00:13:59]:

I don't know. I mean, listen, I've had so many people at NBC tell me that that's not okay and that that didn't happen. But it's also like their offices were so tucked away. I don't think that a lot of people were over there. I don't know. You know how it works. Someone says something, it spirals out of control and everyone wants to believe it.

Molly McPherson [00:14:18]:

Exactly. I'm not believing the button story.

David [00:14:19]:

No.

Molly McPherson [00:14:20]:

I don't know what, NBC electrician comes in and they say someone had an order button when they're at the desk. Is that you, Mr. Lauer? But it was clear. I mean, there was a lot of blind items about Matt Lauer, of course, for years. But if the Matt Lauer story happened 2023, what would have happened to Matt Lauer?

David [00:14:43]:

Oh, that's a good question. I actually think he would have been canceled faster. It happened pretty fast. Although, you know what, it's interesting because no one saw the opportunity to pick him. Like Brian Williams got kind of had a second round of, and now, granted, he did not do what Matt Lauer did. So let me be clear about journal.

Molly McPherson [00:15:08]:

But in journalistic ethics, it's almost what he did was worse.

David [00:15:11]:

Yeah. And it's also like, it's a ratings, you know, it was kind of surprising that no one tried to give Matt a second chance, not even like a show or like a documentary or anything. And maybe he was also just done with it. I mean, I think now people would have less tolerance for it. I also don't think that in 2023 there would be the environment for anything like that to happen anymore because people are so protective, they are so hr forward. And I think that people would have spoken up about something much sooner than it ever happened. We heard that there were things happen for years and years and whatever. And I don't think that would be the case these days because people talk and people would report it.

Molly McPherson [00:15:53]:

Yeah, I mean, that's true. Which part of me would say that? But the other part of me says because Matt Lauer was so valued at that network and not necessarily beloved, but valued. He was good. He was good. And I think the reason why Brian Williams stuck around, even though the egregious sin of just embellishing his war coverage, which, oh, my gosh, I mean, that was awful that that happened. But I think he would have pushed back a little because he said, she said and it was, I think NBC would have done something to make it go away because back then we were still in the too realm.

David [00:16:34]:

Yes, you're right.

Molly McPherson [00:16:35]:

Now I think they would have done something. That's just my opinion.

David [00:16:38]:

Because it happened right after. No, because it happened right after Charlie Rose. I think Charlie Rose was first.

Molly McPherson [00:16:43]:

Yes.

David [00:16:43]:

And then Matt was shortly after. And I remember because it's around this time, because I was watching the Thanksgiving Day parade with my friend and Matt wasn't on the Thanksgiving Day parade and everyone was like, oh, or he was on the Thanksgiving Day parade, but the energy was off between him and Savannah. And then that following Monday is when he got fired.

Molly McPherson [00:16:59]:

Oh, no. Oh, wow.

David [00:17:03]:

I remember that. I could talk about this for, all.

Molly McPherson [00:17:06]:

Right, so let's talk now. So you've been local, you've been national.

David [00:17:10]:

Yes.

Molly McPherson [00:17:11]:

Now, first, let's just talk about the, what are some of the things. First, it just, as a producer, what is your job? In a sentence or less, what does a producer do?

David [00:17:19]:

You make tv happen. You make sure that everything happens from beginning to end. You're prepping the correspondent, you're helping write scripts, you're finding all the visuals that go with the story. Because tv is a visual medium. You have to have the visuals that go with what's going on. You're there to keep the train on the tracks and make the world go round.

Molly McPherson [00:17:42]:

Okay. Oh, train on the tracks. World goes. What's the difference between a producer and a booker?

David [00:17:48]:

So a booker is focused on actually calling people. And it could be anything. It could be like a hurricane happened in Florida and you're trying to find families for your crew in Florida to go talk to. You're scouring social media, you're finding the videos, you're trying to track down people. It could also be trying to book celebrities. You're trying to book someone about either, like, a scandal, or you're trying to book that celebrity who's got that big thing, or someone's got new music. You're trying to book them. A producer can be a booker or can help in the booking process.

David [00:18:19]:

And I think bookers are producers, and producers are bookers, but it's just that a lot of people now call them editorial producers as bookers because you are producing something.

Molly McPherson [00:18:28]:

Right.

David [00:18:28]:

And so I don't want to minimize that work, but a producer is thinking more of, like, how are we going to make this happen? How is this going to look on tv? What questions are you going to ask? Where are we going to do it? Like, a booker would call me and say, hey, we booked so and so as an exclusive. And then I'd have to figure out, what hotel room are we doing in New York? Call the crew, get the time, book everything, and then run the tape back to the station. Figure everything. It's all symbiotic, but, yes, it is astounding how many people it takes to make tv happen every day.

Molly McPherson [00:19:02]:

Yes. And I can say this from a PR point of view, when a booker has you, and a booker knows you, and a booker has your phone number, you're going to be booked 100%. And if you work with that booker. One of my favorite bookers is Jake at Mec. And what's great about him is he knows a TikToky news story. Because he gets where I bridge. Because even though I'm on TikTok and I talk like celebrity celebrities, people know, though, I'm really a newsy.

David [00:19:32]:

Right.

Molly McPherson [00:19:33]:

And I can translate that. He is one of my. And that guy hustles, hustle, hustle, hustle. But he's following. And that's why I love the news business. And there's so many. I still think it's a very vibrant area to go into with journalism. I mean, I'm telling my daughter to go into it as well.

Molly McPherson [00:19:51]:

Okay, so now, in your role, though, as a producer, you've interviewed lawmakers, presidents, secretary of states, celebrities, athletes, people in crisis. Give me the best person you interviewed and.

David [00:20:11]:

Like, the one that sticks with me the most.

Molly McPherson [00:20:13]:

Yes.

David [00:20:14]:

Okay. So, actually, this is going to be slightly controversial, but I interviewed Donald Trump for the Celebrity Apprentice way back when, and it was possibly one of the most fun interviews I've ever done.

Molly McPherson [00:20:23]:

Okay, hold on, hold on. So were you at KTLA when you were doing this?

David [00:20:27]:

Yes.

Molly McPherson [00:20:27]:

And we did intern. And you were interviewing Donald Trump?

David [00:20:30]:

I was a producer then, but it was one of those junkets that we did, a setup, and he was so much fun. He loved the show. I loved the show. Right. I mean, it was wonderful television.

Molly McPherson [00:20:41]:

I watched the show.

David [00:20:42]:

The show was amazing. It was awesome television. Like, who doesn't want to see Brooke Burke selling hot dogs on the side of the know?

Molly McPherson [00:20:50]:

My daughter Kate and I, she's the one in Chicago.

David [00:20:52]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:20:52]:

We love that show.

David [00:20:54]:

It was so mean. And then other than that, I think.

Molly McPherson [00:21:03]:

But hold on 1 second.

David [00:21:04]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:21:05]:

You said Donald Trump and you said fun. Bridge those two together.

David [00:21:10]:

Yeah, Donald Trump, he was knew. So he's a showman, first of all, right. He's an entertainer. So he knew how to comment on things and talk about the challenges. And there was a repartee in the interview that was very comfortable.

Molly McPherson [00:21:24]:

He could give you a sound bite.

David [00:21:26]:

All the sound bites. Right. And one of the things that I'm sure we'll talk about is he was able to give a good sound bite in 30 seconds or less.

Molly McPherson [00:21:33]:

Yeah.

David [00:21:34]:

At that point in time. Right now, we know things have changed a little bit.

Molly McPherson [00:21:38]:

Yeah. But he knows how to package it. Okay, so give me someone in the political realm, either, who you admired. That was easy to work with, a positive experience in the political realm.

David [00:21:48]:

John Kerry.

Molly McPherson [00:21:50]:

John Kerry.

David [00:21:51]:

John Kerry was actually really like. It was when we interviewed him for Nick News, when he was the climate envoy. He was super relaxed. I helped relaunch it in 2021.

Molly McPherson [00:22:06]:

I went to school with people. When I was at BU, they went to Nick News.

David [00:22:09]:

That's amazing. I love that show.

Molly McPherson [00:22:10]:

This is a great show.

David [00:22:11]:

Yes. And so the first show that we did was about climate. And so we booked him. And his team was lovely to work with. He was really great to work with. I'm trying to think, oh, you know what? Who else was Pete Buttigieg?

Molly McPherson [00:22:28]:

I just love him.

David [00:22:29]:

Just super relaxed. I covered him. In 2020, CBS had the democratic debate in South Carolina, the last one before COVID because it was at the very end of February 2020. Who moderated that? If it was CBS, it was like six people. It was major, it was Nora, it was Gail. It was a lot of people. But it was one of those things where it was Gail and Nora, and then they brought in a bunch of people. Then it went back to Gail and Nora.

David [00:22:58]:

Right. But he just was like his team was very cool. And in those situations, it is so high stress. Right. You've got, like, ten people backstage. You're trying to make everyone happy. And his team was just super cool about everything. Pete was super nice, said thank you to everyone.

David [00:23:15]:

You remember that kind of thing where someone who's really important is thanking the producers who are there, like, making sure he has coffee and tea and water.

Molly McPherson [00:23:24]:

He seems just like a chill guy. Okay, so before we go on, I have to ask you, who's the worst.

David [00:23:28]:

Out of all of them?

Molly McPherson [00:23:31]:

Worst person to deal with?

David [00:23:32]:

Can I say Donald Trump when he was in the White House?

Molly McPherson [00:23:36]:

Well.

David [00:23:39]:

That'S kind of obvious.

Molly McPherson [00:23:40]:

Yeah, that's something. People go, really?

David [00:23:44]:

I'm trying to think.

Molly McPherson [00:23:47]:

Trying to think. Come on. You should have.

David [00:23:49]:

No, I know. Pocket David. This goes back to when I was in entertainment at KTLA, but Avril Lavigne was not very nice.

Molly McPherson [00:23:59]:

Not surprising to me, though.

David [00:24:00]:

No. And I was on the red carpet, and I was asking her to kind of do something a little salesy anyway, but she just kind of said something really not nice to me and walked away, like, directed at you.

Molly McPherson [00:24:13]:

Like mean girl. At you?

David [00:24:15]:

Yeah, like, f off. And then walked off on the red carpet.

Molly McPherson [00:24:19]:

Oh. And where is she today?

David [00:24:21]:

Well, I don't know.

Molly McPherson [00:24:22]:

Exactly.

David [00:24:23]:

That's our point.

Molly McPherson [00:24:23]:

If you're not nice to people, then they don't know who you are. You become irrelevant. Okay.

David [00:24:27]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:24:28]:

All right. Oh, my gosh. I could talk to you for hours. All right, so let's now talk. Let's not go into the newsroom. Let's go into the studio. Okay, so let's say you're doing an interview now. I was someone.

Molly McPherson [00:24:41]:

I did media training a lot. It was just something that I always did. But I've seen there's just kind of less relevance for it right now because I don't think there is as many opportunities out there to be interviewed nationally, unless you're a part of some big incident or even locally. But I do think if you have a very proactive staff, you can get an interview. I mean, there is some value to that. Absolutely. And certainly, too, what applies sometimes in television news with interviews, I think, just applies, even just in video content. A lot of the same rules are there.

Molly McPherson [00:25:15]:

But let's just talk about, let's say someone does have the opportunity to sit down for an interview. And given the choice of doing taped or live, what would you tell a client to do?

David [00:25:26]:

Always live. Why live? 100%. Because, you know, at the end of the day, what you're saying is going to make it on television. So if you do a taped interview, like we're doing a feature story on insert CEO here, right? You go to their headquarters, you walk around with them, you get the b roll shots is what they're called. Like when the reporter and the CEO will literally walk. And then when they're introducing, like so and so is CEO, blah blah, blah, then that's when you show the walking shot and then they're sitting down.

Molly McPherson [00:25:55]:

David, can I tell you something horrible about this background video? So when I did, I filmed something for ABC in New York, for the network for Nightline about Lizzo. And so the interview was just stressful enough where you have to prep for that interview, right? But then she said, we need b roll. And I thought, okay, I am so out of context right now. Like, I don't work in NBC, I don't live in New York City, right. And they wanted b roll of me walking around.

David [00:26:24]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:26:25]:

Mortified. So it's one know when I'm walking down the hallway because it's bad enough, like I already walk like a softball player because I walk 1000 miles an hour wherever.

David [00:26:36]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:26:36]:

So I have to slowly, I'm wearing heels, right. But then they go behind me. I'm like, no, I had a bag with me that moved around my body. I don't have body dysmorphia. But when you know you're going to be filmed on national television trying.

David [00:26:52]:

Oh, I know.

Molly McPherson [00:26:53]:

Casual, mortifying.

David [00:26:54]:

The walk shot. The walk shot is always, and I always had to prep people for it as a producer, and I do it now on the PR side, too. I'm like, you're going to do this really awkward walk shot where you're going to sit with the correspondent or you're going to stand with the respondent. You're going to talk about nothing for 30 seconds as you walk past the camera, but you need it in the editing process. It's a necessary evil. It really is. Yeah, it's awful. So my point is, when I've done sit downs with executives before, I've invited news outlets to come do that, and I've done it before as a producer, too.

David [00:27:25]:

Those interviews go an hour, right? Sometimes you have 30 minutes, but sometimes they have an hour. And the piece that airs on television from start to finish is four minutes, maybe three, maybe two. So think about how much you're saying in that 60 minutes of conversation and how much that gets edited down and having someone who's been had to edit down that interview to almost nothing and still shaving seconds off of it up until when it airs because people are bumping around time in the show. I would always argue that if you have a message that you want to get out there, do it live. I mean, I know that live tv is scarier. Right? And that's the flip side, though, is when you have a five, seven minute conversation on tv, you know what you're saying is going to be heard by everyone. It's not going to be edited, it's not going to be caught up. The sound bites will air later, usually.

David [00:28:12]:

Right. But that one interview will live online, it will live on social media, and it will be what people see on tv.

Molly McPherson [00:28:20]:

Yes. And it really cuts down any type of opportunity to edit or to change the context of an answer because the live interview is there. Now, you talk about that interview and you want it to move along. What is the ideal length of a sound bite?

David [00:28:35]:

30 seconds.

Molly McPherson [00:28:37]:

Okay, so when someone is prepping either with a media trainer or even someone on staff, how do you recommend that they get to those 30 seconds? Are you writing for time and making it work, or are you writing for content and quality?

David [00:28:54]:

I know it's hard.

Molly McPherson [00:28:55]:

What do you do there?

David [00:28:56]:

You have to straddle the line between clarity and conciseness. Right. Whenever I'm media training anyone, I have my iPhone timer out. Because the last thing you want is someone to go on live tv and ramble and ramble and ramble and ramble. It always looks bad. The anchors try to cut you off, then to move on to the next thing, and then it just, it doesn't look good for anyone. Right. So again, like you've talked about, like you've got the one point and then the three points kind of below it.

David [00:29:24]:

If you can get those points down to some pretty simple sentences, then you can get your sound bite down to 30 seconds. You don't have to add things. You don't have to get flowery with your words. Like you can be direct and easy and concise. And the other thing that journalists have at their disposal that they do all the time is silence. Right? Like if you're interviewing someone and you sit there and you're silent, that people naturally fill that silence. So then they just keep talking. And every executive who I media train, I say, when you hit that silence, you let them ask the next question and it's going to be uncomfortable, but you just let it happen.

David [00:29:59]:

Don't feel the pressure to fill that silence.

Molly McPherson [00:30:01]:

Yes, that is a great tip, but I think it's very difficult for people sitting in those interviews, they get very nervous.

David [00:30:07]:

And you're on live tv, you're under the lights. You could have flown in from insert city here the night before. You're up early, there's hair and makeup in your face. All of a sudden you're like, wait, when I work with male executives, sometimes they're like, what the hell is this makeup? And I'm like, well, it's so you don't look like a goblin on television. Trust me, you're going to want it later. Right.

Molly McPherson [00:30:30]:

Shiny goblin.

David [00:30:31]:

A shiny goblin. Or like, just, you have uneven skin. It's fine. It makes everything look just a little bit more matte and real. But there's a lot of stressors in live tv, and if you can get past those, then you're good to go.

Molly McPherson [00:30:45]:

Yeah. So now when you prep someone for a media interview, so answer this. As someone who preps someone, but also as a producer, what should someone walk in the door with in terms of preparation for an interview, in terms of how to prepare the language and what they're going to say, what framework do you advise?

David [00:31:04]:

So a good producer who wants to have a good relationship with the PR people on the other side will give them, they won't give them the exact questions, but they'll give you a list of topics that the people want to talk about. Right. Anchors are naturally going to want to talk about specific things, right. And sometimes there's that elephant in the room that everyone has to get out, but you want to have, ideally, the producer will give the PR person a list of topics so you can focus on. Right. And then the PR person should make sure that they have that. And then you kind of have your stories that go along with those talking points. Right.

David [00:31:40]:

You kind of know what's going to be asked. A lot of it isn't going to be out of left field. And then if there is something that's out of left field, then you teach people to pivot where they answer a little bit about that and then they pivot back to what they really, really know or they get some specific statistic that's cited out of nowhere. But usually I can tell if a producer has prepared or talked to the correspondent because if they're coming to me with specifics and, oh, they're interested in this, oh, they're interested in that, then I know that I can go back to my executive with confidence and say, hey, I think that they're going to talk about this, this and this. If it's a little bit more of a wild conversation, I prepare my executive a little differently, where I'm like, you got to be ready for anything. And when I was a producer, I tried really hard to be upfront about what we were doing so that everyone was more comfortable and it was a better piece anyway.

Molly McPherson [00:32:31]:

Yeah. Because I think, you know, I know this just in all my work, when people sit down for an interview, they immediately default to a position where they think someone's going to do a gotcha.

David [00:32:42]:

Yes.

Molly McPherson [00:32:43]:

No matter who they're sitting in front of. All of a sudden, in their mind, they become Tim Russert and they're going to be gotchaed to death. And that's not necessarily the case, correct?

David [00:32:52]:

No, it's not. I've worked with people on the other side, the other side who see media as evil or a necessary evil, and I'm like, no, journalists want to do their jobs just as much as the PR people want to do their jobs. And you and I both know this is an industry of relationships. Right. Relationships matter, and it's the relationship between the PR person and the producer. But then it's also, if you're talking at a higher level, the anchor might know the executive or the celebrity or whatever, or they might have some kind of relationship outside of the news business, or they might have met before. So everyone wants to do their job, right. No one is there to be mean or to see someone go down.

David [00:33:41]:

And that's why I think there's this inherent, like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to go on tv and they're going to ask me really hard questions. They might, but if you can answer them, they're not going to go in harder.

Molly McPherson [00:33:52]:

Yes. And I think also there is the context of an interview. I mean, there's people who are contributing as a source to a story to make the story better and more evolved. But then you have an incident and someone needs to speak up and they need an answer that's like a different type. It's almost like an interrogation, and that's like a different type of interview altogether. But if you've given that opportunity and you're there, it's transparency, it's quote unquote quotes and being more transparent. Have you ever been in a dicey situation, one of those interviews where it was a live interview and it was getting heavy and hard and tense and where an anchor was just pounding?

David [00:34:36]:

Yes. And it's not fun to be watching from backstage? No.

Molly McPherson [00:34:43]:

Can you shed any more light on that?

David [00:34:46]:

Yeah. Without going into too much detail, my company was involved in a rather brutal proxy fight earlier this year. And so when we reported earnings during the proxy fight, we did a whole media tour with our CEO in city. You know, we took him to CNBC, we took him to Bloomberg, we took him to the Times. We did a full day of media. And there was one of the interviews where I was backstage. And what's scary is so I send out my schedule at the beginning of the day to the entire executive leadership team, to the comms team, and I'm like, here's where so and so is going to be live. So everyone knows to tune in.

David [00:35:29]:

So you're not only watching yourself, but you're getting real time feedback from everyone else who's watching.

Molly McPherson [00:35:35]:

Oh, gosh.

David [00:35:36]:

Right. And there's nothing you can do at that point, right. Like, you've prepared them as best as you can, but they're getting asked some really relevant, hard questions and they're not necessarily responding in the way that they should be. And so then the interview just continues to get harder. And then, you know what's going to happen is their phone is also getting pinged. So once they get offset, then they're going to read what has been said to them that has already been said to you. And then you got to tell them, just pick up and keep going because it was in the middle of the day and we have more interviews to do in that afternoon.

Molly McPherson [00:36:11]:

Oh, my gosh.

David [00:36:12]:

I know. Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:36:14]:

Oh, my gosh.

David [00:36:15]:

It's hard.

Molly McPherson [00:36:15]:

Yeah, it is hard. So when people are doing interviews, either from wearing your pr hat or your producer hat, what should people look like? What should be the wardrobe? How should they comport themselves? How can they look best on air?

David [00:36:31]:

I think you need to think about your audience. So if you're on a morning show, that's more of your, like, I'm a big fan of the t shirt under a suit jacket. I mean, it depends on the industry you work in, too, right? But you can have a little bit more fun. If you're on a morning show, especially now, the day and age of today's shows, CBS Mornings, good Morning America, everything is like full body. You know, you can have your shirt open, you can wear high tops with your, like, you can be a little bit more approachable and more color, jewel tones, things like that. If you're going on a business network, then for men, it's just kind of a basic suit, no loud patterns on your tie. For women, the standard rule is just a basic color, no patterns. Jewel tones are always the best for tv.

David [00:37:18]:

No weird, like sleeves, fringe, anything like that.

Molly McPherson [00:37:22]:

Yeah. Can I tell you the amount of stress that I have figuring out just the top to wear when I do the broadcast interviews, it's not even what I'm saying. It's, damn, what am I going to wear?

David [00:37:36]:

And here's the thing. Every female reporter who I worked with, mostly on the network side, they would find something flattering that looked good from the waist up, and they would buy it in 16 different colors and then just rotate through. Or I had other friends who had, like, capsule wardrobe, so it was always like, the same kind of blouse with the jacket over it. If you're doing it every day, then you have your tv friendly wardrobe.

Molly McPherson [00:38:04]:

But if you're not, if you're someone scrambling and they call you and say, could you go on in 20 minutes? You're like, sure.

David [00:38:10]:

Talking points. And you're, I know you're upstairs in your closet looking for, yes. Jewel tones, and then you're trying to throw on makeup, and you're trying to fix your hair. Exactly. Yes. It is a little bit of a, if you're not used to it. But that's why I recommend to people, both executives and then people who want to be on tv, more guests. You build a tv wardrobe.

David [00:38:34]:

And honestly, how I kind of found success in tv news and my own voice is like you. I watch tv news all the time. I emulated what I heard on the Today shows in the good morning americas of the world. And the best thing to do is to watch tv and see what people look good in, what people don't look good in all the time. And I had, reporters would constantly get dms from people that were like, I love your top. Where did you get it? I love this. Where did you get it? They were constantly giving out fashion advice for the dresses that they had and rent. The Runway is a huge thing in the tv news industry, because then you're at least refreshing your wardrobe while getting things that look professional on television.

Molly McPherson [00:39:16]:

That's a hack that I do. My TikTok hack is I rent clothes.

David [00:39:20]:

Rent the Runway.

Molly McPherson [00:39:21]:

Yes. Well, I don't do rent. That's a little too upscale for me.

David [00:39:24]:

Oh, got it. Okay.

Molly McPherson [00:39:25]:

But you rent, you know, but as a funny aside, whenever I do something with NBC News now, it will usually be with Hallie Jackson on there. Yeah, she dresses well. Not only does she look like me, the younger version of me, but she dresses. We have the same wardrobe. When I dress, I'm like, I have to not wear what I think she's going to wear, and she's wearing something that literally is in my closet. All right, so we just talked about wardrobe, though. But what about just the body language? Do you, as a producer or even in your pr role, what do you tell the interview subject about their body language?

David [00:39:59]:

So it's funny because I always tried to. There's actually always a conversation when you do a sit down interview, not a live interview, but a taped interview. When you're bringing in cameras, what are the chairs going to be? Because the chairs can make the interview. Right. If it's like a high, relaxed wingback chair, that can make someone a little bit more relaxed. Some people prefer a stool because it helps them sit up straighter and it helps them pay more attention. Some people like a lower seat. So I always, as a producer, I always tried to ask, what did they prefer? And some teams came to me with, like, they want this chair with this cushion and they want this.

David [00:40:40]:

And then some people were like, I don't know, like, you pick. So it begins with that. And then it's all about making sure that people can have a fluid conversation. So you want it to be well lit. You want people to be. There's always going to be some kind of an angle. It's a little strange. Rarely are you facing each other head on.

David [00:41:01]:

There's always a little bit of an angle that you have to cheat because you want the two shot, which is where, like, the wide shot of the interview, you want it to be slightly angled towards the camera. Or sometimes you're working in space constraints where you're, like, kind of have to be right next to each other, so it can be a little awkward, too. But you just try to make the person as comfortable as possible. And like I said, there's a lot that goes into it. Right. So if you're in a taped interview, you're getting mic'd up, right. And then a photographer has to run a microphone up the front of your shirt or up the back of your dress. There's all these things that happen before you do an interview on tv that makes you realize you're about to do an interview on tv.

David [00:41:40]:

It's not just like walking up to a press line with a reporter from the Times and they're just writing down your quote. Right. It's a little different.

Molly McPherson [00:41:51]:

As a producer, I have had down my dress.

David [00:41:56]:

Yes. Do you know how many blouses I have been up?

Molly McPherson [00:42:01]:

I know.

David [00:42:02]:

Feeding things, or it's like I'm giving them the mic pack and I'm like, just drop it down the front of your dress. It's totally fine. And I'll catch.

Molly McPherson [00:42:12]:

You know, it's funny that you're even saying this, because just today I'm speaking in New York at an Axios event, which I'm super excited about. But of course, what's the first thing on my mind? What am I going to wear? Not what am I going to say? What am I going to wear? And I didn't know. Okay, what's the setup? And they sent me the link of the video, and I could see, oh, my gosh, they have the two chairs and they're white and they're cushy.

David [00:42:36]:

The chairs maintain.

Molly McPherson [00:42:37]:

And you're absolutely right. They're like this. It's like, okay, that means my legs will be exposed, my body, and I'm adapting my wardrobe to that chair.

David [00:42:45]:

Right. And you have to think about, like, are they going to see your shoes? Do you want heels? Do you not want heels? Do you want a skirt? Do you want a dress for men? I have worked with several executives who are super well dressed, from the shoulders to the ankles. And then they have really bad shoes.

Molly McPherson [00:43:06]:

Yes. Well, for this video, the Jimmy Choos are coming.

David [00:43:11]:

Of course, because it's axios and they're worth. But, but it's like, I've had to remind people, like, hey, by the way, your shoes are going to be on national television. Could we go get some different ones?

Molly McPherson [00:43:26]:

Oh, okay. Gosh, the fun job of producer.

David [00:43:28]:

Okay, so now those are all the.

Molly McPherson [00:43:29]:

Tips to make people look good in their interviews, to look good on the air. Let's talk about the pitfalls and some of the challenges when interviews may be designed or set up to make you look not so good. And that's some of these contentious interviews when perhaps a reporter or an anchor is going to make it a little difficult for you. So what are some of the things that someone can expect if it's more of a contentious or pointed interview? What are some of the things that you've seen reporters or anchors do?

David [00:44:05]:

So one thing is they will ask a very tough question out of the gate. There's no easing into it. They will ask a very hard question out of the gate to really set the tone of you came on to answer for what you did or whatever happened, start answering. The other thing that you'll see, especially in a taped interview, is a reporter or an anchor will ask the same question multiple different ways. They will ask it and they'll ask a question. You won't answer it. Then three questions later, they'll come back to that question and try to get you to answer it again. And so I always coach people in the way of, you recognize that same question.

David [00:44:50]:

It's okay to give that exact same answer, because if you signal to this reporter that you're not going to answer the question, they will stop asking. Right. But they're going to give it three or four shots. So that's something to expect. The other thing is, and this is something that I learned in local from an investigative reporter, they might have a tell with their photographer, like brushing their hair behind their ear or tapping their pencil or whatever, so that the photographer knows to zoom in because they're going to ask a really hard question.

Molly McPherson [00:45:25]:

Oh, the tell.

David [00:45:27]:

The tell.

Molly McPherson [00:45:29]:

What are some of the tells that you've actually seen? So there's a hair tell.

David [00:45:33]:

There's a hair tell I've seen tapping a pen on paper. There was one reporter who I worked with who once they shifted their, like, if they shifted their body, the photographer knew that they were about to answer or ask something really pointed or difficult. And that's when, especially when you have a set up where sometimes, not to get too into the weeds, but sometimes the photographer has their shot where you can see the back of the reporter's head and then the person in the foreground.

Molly McPherson [00:46:04]:

Yes.

David [00:46:05]:

But then they know to push in so that it's a tight shot of this person getting this really hard question that's like the 60 minutes framing. Like, you're like this. So I always tell people to pay attention to other people's body language because as a producer, I've had to tell the photographer, like, oh, look for this. Because when this reporter does this, then this is when the question is going to come. So really be prepared for whatever could happen.

Molly McPherson [00:46:32]:

Oh, wow, that is good intel. And also the risk, too, when an anchor or reporter goes too hard with that first question with the purpose of throwing the interview subject off balance, it could really razzle them or frazzle them to the point where they never get back on track. And then it becomes kind of a messy interview.

David [00:46:57]:

Well, it could be messy, like my shirt. Mr. Messy. This is my constant. I mean, you can see it from two ways. One is that if the anchor or the reporter wants to have a newsmaking interview, like someone like Elizabeth Holmes. Right. Just completely bombs it.

David [00:47:16]:

Right. People are going to be watching. People are going to be sharing. That's the rating social media game. Right? Like Elizabeth Holmes tanks interview. However, you also run the risk of, were you too hard on them? Were you asking the right questions? Was it a gotcha interview? And with the trust in the media, where it is these days you run the risk of, were you being too hard on this person who agreed to come on the show?

Molly McPherson [00:47:41]:

Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to ask you a question, and this is what I'm noticing, and maybe you could tell me, too, your thoughts on this. So I worked in the days either on the news side or in the Pio side or when I was in public relations. Do you think the day of the big expose interview. So let's say there's a crisis, there's an incident, whatever's happening. Do you feel now that people don't choose to do television interviews because they have social media and they can just put out a statement?

David [00:48:17]:

100%. You can put out a nice flowery, like, wrapped up. You can either type a note on your phone and screenshot it, you can get a nice graphic made. But people don't have to turn to national news anymore to make their statement, right. And you know that if you put it out, it's going to be covered by every national news outlet anyway, right? So why risk the interview and exposing yourself when you can just put your statement out there? But then that's where all the stuff that you talk about comes in, about how the statement can really backfire. But if you really think that it's not advantageous to do television, which a lot of times it's not, then just put out a statement.

Molly McPherson [00:49:01]:

Yeah. Because the expectation was to do a television interview. The expectation, when it was really big story, you were doing 60 minutes, the expectation you're doing, like, if the networks.

David [00:49:13]:

Called, you're doing that interview, it humanized you.

Molly McPherson [00:49:16]:

Yeah. When I was in DC, if someone called, that interview was happening. But now I don't think you need.

David [00:49:23]:

To do it because it's not. I think previously it was a courageous thing to go on television and say you were sorry. Right. It was like I said, it humanizes.

Molly McPherson [00:49:32]:

You or makes people thought they were smarter than the reporter and they wouldn't have to say they're sorry and they'd.

David [00:49:36]:

Be able to explain it that, too. And unfortunately, that still does exist. And then someone in my shoes is begging, pleading like, please, please don't make me book you on television because you're not going to do it. Right. So I think nowadays you can control your own narrative so much more, right. Because you put out a statement on social media, if you have fans, they're going to rush to your aid.

Molly McPherson [00:50:01]:

Okay, so I got to do this out. Whoops. 49. You blanked out there with your wifi. Okay. So I think can you hear me?

David [00:50:12]:

Yeah, I can hear you now.

Molly McPherson [00:50:13]:

Okay.

David [00:50:14]:

It keeps freezing.

Molly McPherson [00:50:15]:

We have to answer that question. Yeah, like, are you on an ethernet or just wifi?

David [00:50:18]:

I'm just on wiFi.

Molly McPherson [00:50:20]:

Okay. All right, so why don't we just have you answer that one question again? I can't remember.

David [00:50:24]:

Sure.

Molly McPherson [00:50:24]:

Well, I'll just cut it out. I don't even remember what it was. So we'll move on because now it's 50. Okay, so now wait. I had a great transition and then you got lost. Shoot.

David [00:50:33]:

Sorry.

Molly McPherson [00:50:33]:

Oh, no, that's not your fault. Okay. All right, so I just mentioned. Okay, wait, I'm going to do this part over.

David [00:50:44]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [00:50:48]:

Okay. David, the media landscape right now, as we were talking about it, people aren't as inclined to do media interviews. But when you see these big stories happen, they look to a CEO or they look to a head of organization, do the interview. They almost never do it anymore. But then one of the biggest stories of 2023, from a corporate point of view, at least from my perspective, at least what I was watching, happened in April of 2023, and that was Bud Light. And I call it the Bud light debacle until someone else can come up with a new name for it.

David [00:51:23]:

That's what it is.

Molly McPherson [00:51:24]:

That's what I deem it. But, Dave, why don't you tell us? Because you even said that you knew people who worked there briefly. What happened with Bud Light.

David [00:51:34]:

Yeah. So I think what happened was they sent a can. They did a personalized can, kind of like an activation, if you will. And they sent a can to, you know, the superstar trans woman on.

Molly McPherson [00:51:55]:

You.

David [00:51:55]:

Know, Bud light has a very conservative fan base and people didn't like that. Dylan Mulvaney got a can of Bud Light and then you've seen the implosion of it now. Bud Light was the best selling beer in America. Now it's modelo. Bud light lost a ton of market share. People have left the was. It was a really public black eye. All because, like they like to say, just one know, that's one can really screwed up a very iconic american brand.

Molly McPherson [00:52:31]:

Yes. And it's still reverberating to this day. Certainly the numbers aren't where they even close to where they used to be. They're now done a partnership with UFC and Dana White. And also recently, too, that the marketing chief in the US stepped down recently.

David [00:52:51]:

Right. Yeah. And I mean, it's funny because now working in PR, everyone refers to it as, like, what they don't want to go through. Right. Like, oh, that was like the big misstep of 2023. And unfortunately, they're going to continue to be that example until there's another example that is that bad or worse?

Molly McPherson [00:53:08]:

Yes. And I would say because of the business that I'm in, part of the reason why it was so bad was because of how they handled it. And I don't think that it was necessarily the choice of what they did. It's the choice of how they rolled it out and what does not get played out a lot or get a lot of attention. Even in all the media interviews that I do, it doesn't get picked up as much. Where I think it went sour is not the decision to use Dylan Mulvaney because they worked with a ton of.

David [00:53:38]:

Influencers across the board.

Molly McPherson [00:53:39]:

I mean, this was an influencer campaign. It was not a Dylan Mulvaney campaign. But it was the head of marketing who was on a podcast who wasn't prepared, who was kind of talking off the cuff and had talked about the market. Know, and I'm paraphrasing, I have to memorize this because I say this talking, but just dismissing the bro culture of buzz light and wanting to try something new. That's what got snagged was that clip. And it went off from there. And then leadership wasn't prepared for what happened. And that brings us up to the head of Anheuser Bush.

Molly McPherson [00:54:17]:

We heard from the CEO, and this is where you and I connected, where we had talked about the interview that Brendan Whitworth did on.

David [00:54:30]:

A pretty. It was a, it was a good interview for Anheuser Bush.

Molly McPherson [00:54:34]:

Yes, it was a good. Okay, so listen, on the last part of this podcast or this interview, let's talk about this interview now, just in terms of a setup. This is CBS Morning. And at the anchor desk, we have. Who are the three people occupying the anchor desk?

David [00:54:53]:

Gail King, Tony de Coppol, and Nate Burleson.

Molly McPherson [00:54:56]:

Hear me? Oh, wait. You know, yeah, your wifi is really bad.

David [00:55:00]:

Is it bad? Yes, it's because we're having, like, the storm of the century here in New York. Oh, are you me? Okay, I still hear you.

Molly McPherson [00:55:09]:

It might be okay.

David [00:55:10]:

I still hear you.

Molly McPherson [00:55:11]:

Okay.

David [00:55:12]:

Is my video fuzzy?

Molly McPherson [00:55:13]:

Yeah, your video is fuzzy, but. Okay, let me see. Oh, this is funny. So I was just texting. Okay. So I had to ask. So my boyfriend, did I tell you that he's an anchor?

David [00:55:28]:

No.

Molly McPherson [00:55:29]:

And so I was texting him and I was asking them, I said, hey, do you have a tell with your photographer when you're doing a hard question? And he says, he generally stays on a two shot. I told him that to start the interview I was just doing, I'd be showing the guy photos on my phone.

David [00:55:47]:

Oh.

Molly McPherson [00:55:47]:

The vast majority of my interviews are standing up. That's interesting. So his tell was when he was showing like photos on his.

David [00:55:54]:

So that's, that's, I'm telling you, everyone has a tell. Everyone has a trick.

Molly McPherson [00:56:01]:

Okay, David, I'm going to have to turn off your video.

David [00:56:05]:

Sorry. Hold on.

Molly McPherson [00:56:06]:

Why don't you turn off your video? Okay.

David [00:56:08]:

Yeah, I'll turn off my video. Okay. Is that better now?

Molly McPherson [00:56:13]:

Yes. Okay. Yeah. So isn't that interesting that every anchor.

David [00:56:20]:

Has something, everyone has a towel. Yeah. You have to have a trick. You have to have a trick up your sleeve.

Molly McPherson [00:56:25]:

Yes. And so now that he told me what his trick is, I'm going to see if he ever does it to me when he's up to now. Okay. So the Bud light CEO interview. So just in terms of background for me, I was scheduled to do an interview that day because the news came out that the CEO of Anheuser Bush was coming out and speaking out in the media. And I was contacted by another network to do a news story. But then as I was watching the news that day and watching the story, I noticed it really wasn't getting a lot of pickup. And sure enough, that story with me got canned.

Molly McPherson [00:57:10]:

And I was not surprised in the least because it almost felt like none of the other networks or news outlets wanted to give the CEO and CBS morning any type of traction or any type of buzz around their interview. What do you think about that?

David [00:57:25]:

Yeah. When you're in the control room in the morning, right. Like you're in the national control, any control room, you're seeing what everyone else is doing, right. Like 07:00 a.m. Rolls around your opens rolling Today show, good Morning America, CNN, everyone. You're looking to see what is on everyone's show. And if CBS has an exclusive with the CEO, then you're not going to want to give airtime to the story if the story is going to become the interview on the opposing. That's.

David [00:57:58]:

And especially if there isn't like a huge update, like a huge news related update. It's super easy to just take out that story and everyone does a really good job now of promoting the exclusive interview. They'll start talking about it at 636 45. So, you know, if something's coming, it's not a surprise. And then you have time to alter your, I mean, that's the one thing about a show that I think I would hope that people know. But when you go on the air at seven, it's a living, breathing two hour broadcast. Things can change all the time.

Molly McPherson [00:58:31]:

Yeah. So now in this interview, I was watching this interview, and I don't normally watch morning television, but I watched this interview. And my takeaway was this was an extended promotional video for Anheuser Bush. This was not a news interview. What say you?

David [00:58:54]:

I think there were news bits to it, but it was definitely, I felt like it was a situation. Know Anheuser Bush. Bush. I feel like use the exclusive to their advantage, right. When you offer a network an exclusive that everyone wants, that's your bargaining chip. And then you can negotiate on the back end, like, oh, we don't really want to talk about this, or we really want to talk about that, or we want to make sure that you mention this part of the story. And if the network really wants the exclusive, typically there will be that negotiation and they'll agree to it. Right.

David [00:59:32]:

And then also a well prepared pr person is going to make sure that in the morning when the anchors come visit the green room that they're feeding the anchors. It was just one can. I can't believe it. It was just one. Can you believe it? It was just one can. And then that's how the interview kicked off. Right. You could tell that they'd had a conversation beforehand and then it was kind of like repeated.

David [00:59:55]:

And then it teed him up to have his very well rehearsed answers.

Molly McPherson [01:00:02]:

I have a slightly different thought on that. So I'm going to play the first clip or clip of the first question right out the gate. So we have Brendan Whitworth sitting down. He's on the set, the morning set. And Gail King asks him this first question.

David [01:00:21]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [01:00:23]:

Okay, so hold on. I'm going to have to give this to my producer. But it came after a boycott of Bud Light and its parents company, Anheuser Bush, by some consumers. The controversy I know you've heard all about it began after trans social media star, that's Dylan Mulvaney, posted a video on Instagram. This was in April, showing the company sent her personalized bud like cans with all promotion. Anne Hauser Busch then faced more backlash towards handling of the boycott. Still, the company says it remains the country's number one brewer with brands like Budweiser and many craft breweries. I'm happy to say Jones is at the table live and in color for an exclusive interview.

Molly McPherson [01:01:10]:

Number one, we're glad to have you here. Many people in your position, because since April, you all face. Did it go so off the rail? We did one can to one person. Okay, so there's a couple of things going on in there, right?

David [01:01:32]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [01:01:32]:

So, Gail, I feel as if in that question, and, I don't know, in the onboarding, so to speak, like, she's bringing him in, everything felt very soft and safe for him, even from that introduction. This was not 60 minutes. This is not CBS. And Sunday evenings, this felt like she was sitting down. Seriously, like she was sitting down with a celebrity.

David [01:02:02]:

Right.

Molly McPherson [01:02:03]:

This did not seem like it was coming out hard. And I feel this is more than Gail just coming into the green room a half hour before air. This feels like there was more planning there. It almost feels like. Could there have been some transactional element to this interview? What say you?

David [01:02:25]:

I don't think that money exchanged hands or anything, but advertising. I don't mean like, I can confidently say I've never seen advertising change hands because of that. Now, to be fair, we've seen every news organization is a corporation, right? CBS is owned by Paramount. NBC is owned by Comcast. ABC is owned by Disney. So there is an element of making money. You know, I'm sure that there's always these forces of. Well, they're a big advertiser, so blah, blah, blah.

David [01:02:58]:

I think there was a lot of preparation that went into that interview. I've had executives call anchors the night before. Okay? I've put them on the phone with people so that they can explain their side of the story. And the interview usually comes out a little bit softer because they've explained where they're coming from in a less high stress environment. I don't necessarily think there's transactional elements there, but I think there was an attempt to make him feel comfortable, to maybe draw him out of his shell, to have a more genuine answer. But then when you have someone who, like, I think you mentioned on your TikTok media, trained within an inch of his to. He's going to stick to his talking points, right. So it could be welcoming him in to make him feel super comfortable at the table.

David [01:03:47]:

He's in New York. I don't know if he lives there or not, but he's taking the time in the morning to do it. She tried to make him feel comfortable by saying, like, most people will be running for the hills, but not you. Here you are sitting with us to try to just loosen it up a little bit.

Molly McPherson [01:04:02]:

Yeah. I mean, I could go along with that. I could go along with that, but I'm more suss on it, because this was such a bad corporate experience for Bud light and for. And even when Gail's mentioning, it's like she's reading off a press release. It's the number know beer company. And I'm not saying it's like someone's handing over a bag full of cash behind Blackrock.

David [01:04:30]:

Behind. Right.

Molly McPherson [01:04:31]:

But I feel as if there may be some other element at play, that maybe there's some ad package down the road. I don't know. Maybe I got to start looking for ads.

David [01:04:43]:

No, there's always those external forces at play that on the news side, you never really know how they're shaking out. But the other thing, and this goes back to my point about a live interview, you know, that there's not a ton of time at the beginning of the live interview to recap everything and rehash everything. So the intro was very broad. Right? Here's what happened. It was Dylan Mulvaney. Bud light got some backlash. They were the number one beer. Now they're not.

David [01:05:11]:

Here's the CEO. Right. It's not like you and I were sitting down for ten minutes to go through it and then talk about it at length. Right. You knew that that intro was going to be 30 seconds max. Very high level. And then he got to start talking about what he wanted to talk about.

Molly McPherson [01:05:25]:

Okay, so then, now here's another clip that I'm going to play that could feed into your argument and also feeds into mine that it feels. Let me just play the clip.

David [01:05:39]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [01:05:39]:

So, now, this is the one where he talks about him being a ce. Like it said you were a CIA agent.

David [01:05:47]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [01:05:48]:

What's that guy's name again? What is he?

David [01:05:50]:

Nate Burleson. Nate Burleson?

Molly McPherson [01:05:52]:

No, Nate's the white guy. Who's the black.

David [01:05:54]:

No, no. Tony's the white guy. Nate is.

Molly McPherson [01:05:56]:

Why? Nate's the black guy.

David [01:05:57]:

Okay.

Molly McPherson [01:05:58]:

All right. Okay. So I'll come back and do that.

David [01:06:00]:

I'm trying to turn on my camera again because I think it surged, but.

Molly McPherson [01:06:03]:

We'Ll give it a shot. Good. Okay.

David [01:06:04]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [01:06:06]:

That question by Nate, it feels somewhat like a buttering up, like a subtle.

David [01:06:12]:

Buttering up, and to remind people that.

Molly McPherson [01:06:14]:

He was in the CIA, he was in the military. What do you think?

David [01:06:19]:

Well, I think that that was a really good pr person pushing it on the booker. Like, by the way, he was in the CIA. He was a know. It's knowing how to tell a good story and knowing that the booker and the producer, because there's going to be a booker who books it and then a segment producer working on the questions, the interview, the editorial. And if you're a savvy pr person, you know how to get with the segment producer and be like, isn't it really interesting that he was in the marines and he was in the like, this guy's not some average Joe or some business school graduate who was a CEO. He was in the CIA. He was a like, he knows how to handle stuff like this. And this is where it's coming.

David [01:07:01]:

Mean, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but clearly, it made it into the prep packet. And then Nate asked the question, and it made him look really good. Brendan. It made Brendan look really good.

Molly McPherson [01:07:11]:

Well, speaking of looking really good, let's talk about how Brendan looked great. Yeah. How did he look?

David [01:07:18]:

If you like I said, it is the open shirt. He had fun shoes on because he knew he was going to be at a glass table. It's going to be a full body shot. So he can be the approachable CEO. He's not dressed in the nines in the morning. He's coming with an open, easy attitude. Scruff a little bit. Yeah.

David [01:07:41]:

It's a chance to be fun, to show off your personality a little bit. He's approachable. I mean, it's the same thing. It's the same idea that ceos will use when they're addressing employees in, like, an internal situation. Right? Like, you're not the guy or the girl or the woman, I should say, who sits in the ivory tower of the exec wing and doesn't talk to anyone. You're a person of the people. And he came, and he was just approachable and easy and fun to look at. And people might be like, wow, he's really good looking.

Molly McPherson [01:08:12]:

He nailed it. There's no doubt about it.

David [01:08:14]:

No, it was so good. I mean, I hope that the people behind the scenes were, like, high fiving after that, because that was, like, really good interview.

Molly McPherson [01:08:22]:

Yeah, absolutely. Nailed it. His management of the crisis was a.

David [01:08:28]:

Disaster, but that, I think, was a great interview.

Molly McPherson [01:08:32]:

Wrapping up. Like, if you are working with a national outlet, let's say so whether it's cable or you're in the networks, maybe you get up to the networks. Do you have any bargaining power? If you are a guest, any bartering, what type of power do you have when you are sitting down to do an.

David [01:08:51]:

In? Like, if you're using the case of Anheuser Bush, you know that everyone wants to talk to you. So you basically get to, like, you can go to a network and say, I really want to talk to Gail. I really want to talk to Margaret Brennan. I really want to talk to Nora O'Donnell. You can go to NBC and say, I want a one on one with is, that is something that guests can do is if they have the power, if they are a newsworthy person, they can say, I only feel super comfortable with Hoda, so I want a one on one with Hoda in the morning.

Molly McPherson [01:09:22]:

Okay.

David [01:09:22]:

But what, not an exclusive.

Molly McPherson [01:09:24]:

So they have less bargaining power.

David [01:09:26]:

But they still. Yeah, it's going to be harder if you're not bargaining. If you're just a guest on tv, there's a lot of flying by the seat of your pants that you have to deal with. Right. Your hit time is going to change. They might put you in a different studio. I don't think you have a ton of bargaining power. But what helps is if you come prepared with talking points, because you have to remember these producers, and I've lived it my whole life, you're doing 80,000 things at once.

David [01:09:57]:

And especially now, news producers are overworked and they're crazy. Right? Like they're trying to handle everything. So if you can hand them something on a silver platter, like, here's my talking points. Here's what I can talk about. Here's great. It can copy paste, make it right into the anchor's intro packet, and then what essentially you served up to them is what's going into the anchor's head when they have their segment prep sheets in front of them. So you can help yourself by being very specific about what you can talk about and have it spelled out in a very neat, clean way, concise to, so that it makes everyone's lives easier. The more that you can make a producer's life easier, the more you will get booked.

Molly McPherson [01:10:42]:

Wonderful. Okay, David, this has been amazing. Your behind the scenes producer point of view of really how to manage a media interview and how to look your best on camera to get your message across, if there was one thing. So you've now worked on both sides.

David [01:11:01]:

Yeah.

Molly McPherson [01:11:02]:

Let's say on the pr side of it or a producer, what is the last thing that you say to someone before they sit down for the interview to get them in the right headspace?

David [01:11:14]:

Oh, that's a good question. I think when I was a producer and I was working with reporters, and reporters get nervous before big interviews all the time. I would just say, it's funny. I had a joke with one reporter where I would always say, clear eyes or what was it? Clear minds clear hearts, full minds, full eyes can't lose.

Molly McPherson [01:11:36]:

Yes.

David [01:11:36]:

We would always say the Friday night lights thing before she did a big.

Molly McPherson [01:11:39]:

Interview.

David [01:11:41]:

Because it was just like a joke, and it made her laugh a little bit. I always try to put people in a better mood, and I have reminded people before they go on tv, this is not life or death. It may feel like life or death. It may feel like life or death, but it's not life or death. It's just television right now. I mean, people will say, like, if you screw it up, it could be really bad for the company or bad for your career. But a moment of levity is always helpful in that last bit of time.

Molly McPherson [01:12:15]:

Oh, that's a good one. I like that, because what I always do when someone's doing an interview or being filmed or photographed, whatever, is I always tell them, you look fantastic or.

David [01:12:27]:

You look great, because people know what they look like. I know. Well, that's always a common thing, too, is worrying how people look. But I feel like if you can interject a little bit of just humor in the situation, especially when there's not sometimes humor to be had, it just makes everyone just a little bit more. And that's kind of my personality, too. I am, by definition, the personality hire in many of the places that I've worked.

Molly McPherson [01:12:53]:

Personality hire?

David [01:12:55]:

Yeah. So you just make it. You want everyone to have a good time, even if you're talking about something that no one really wants to talk.

Molly McPherson [01:13:00]:

About or that you're not prepared to talk about. So my last interview, I'll end on this. The last live interview that I did was two weeks ago, and it was for the australian today show. And even though I can talk about celebrities, when I go to Australia, they'll throw in Australians in there, and then they'll throw in things happening locally. So there's just enough there that just kind of amps the stress level on me a little bit, because then you have the tech, and in my office, I have a teleprompter, I have a camera, and there's a mic, and there's this, and there's everything going on at once. And I was getting ready, and I was already in the control room, and they were there, and I was on mic, and I had my headphones in, and I was with someone who works in the news business on air, who was helping me with this and gave me that, hey, calm. Everything's great. Everything's good.

Molly McPherson [01:13:58]:

And I said, I don't think I can do this. And then he said, you're on a live mike.

David [01:14:08]:

Don't say yes. I went, oh, hot mic.

Molly McPherson [01:14:10]:

Great, Mike. Oh, that's what he said. I got to say that again.

David [01:14:13]:

Hot Mike.

Molly McPherson [01:14:13]:

So I can do it right. I'm going to do that one over. Because he did say that. I said it wrong. Okay, I'm going to start with that over. He looked at me very calmly and said, don't say that you're on a hot mic. And those are the things that people don't think about, you don't think about. Now, granted, if you weren't standing there, I probably wouldn't have been talking to myself like that anyway.

Molly McPherson [01:14:36]:

But you forget those little tiny things that can hurt you in an interview. And that's people who are experienced that know what they're doing.

David [01:14:45]:

And then not to go totally off the rails, but remember, that's what got Amy Roeblock in trouble at ABC when she said the thing about Prince Andrew, about the royals, and then they clipped it and then it made it out because she was on a hot mic before she was doing an affiliate tease.

Molly McPherson [01:15:02]:

Okay, you had to say Amy Roebach. Right?

David [01:15:06]:

I know, I know, I know. We could do it again. But no, but always. But I was always running around like, hot mic, hot Mike, hot mic. That was always my warning to people because people forget and they start, chatty, chatty, chatty.

Molly McPherson [01:15:20]:

But I think that Amy Roebuck knew that was a hot mic.

David [01:15:25]:

Oh, I do.

Molly McPherson [01:15:27]:

Because if you remember, she was angry because she. Remember, she was sitting there, she was like this. She was going, I had it. I had it.

David [01:15:33]:

Yeah, this.

Molly McPherson [01:15:34]:

I had that. I had that. She was bitching. I think she absolutely knew she was on a hot mic.

David [01:15:40]:

She was pissed. Well, yeah, you could argue that, too.

Molly McPherson [01:15:47]:

They had everything. But. Because at that time, they weren't going to report on that. They were going to report on that stuff. But Amy Robach, oh, my gosh. What happened to her?

David [01:15:56]:

I know.

Molly McPherson [01:15:58]:

TJ Holmes.

David [01:15:59]:

They're doing a podcast, the photo that they released where they were like, our silence is broken, and here we are. And it was like the prom pose. I immediately. So I'm still on a text thread with a lot of my old CBS coworkers.

Molly McPherson [01:16:13]:

Oh, yes.

David [01:16:13]:

And the second it came out, I was like, oh, my God, you guys, look at this. And we were all like, holy cow. And we were just like, yeah, it was mass chaos.

Molly McPherson [01:16:22]:

That was the definition of cringe. People ask, like, what's the word cringe mean? That's the photo of Amy Roebuck with TJ Holmes saying, we're silenced no more. Oh, my gosh.

David [01:16:34]:

Those two.

Molly McPherson [01:16:35]:

Yes, those two. Well, I'm not going to say what.

David [01:16:39]:

I think is going to happen, but.

Molly McPherson [01:16:40]:

I think we all know how that's going to play out. Yeah, we all know how that's going to play out. Okay, David, speaking of things playing out, this was fantastic.

David [01:16:48]:

It was so much fun. Thank you so much for having me.

Molly McPherson [01:16:50]:

Oh, my gosh.

David [01:16:52]:

I had so much fun. I was looking forward to that. I knew this would be fun.

Molly McPherson [01:16:55]:

No, this was great. I really appreciate.

David [01:16:59]:

Course.

Molly McPherson [01:16:59]:

So I think I definitely have some editing to do, so this is longer, but this was super fun. So thank you. Thank you.

David [01:17:06]:

Of course. Thank you for having me.

Molly McPherson [01:17:07]:

Yes, and I will definitely, if you don't mind, I'll probably extract some of this when it comes time to start writing the book. And you'll, of course, for me again, if you don't mind.

David [01:17:15]:

Of course. And if you need anything more about the book, let me know. I'm always available. I can shoot you my phone number.

Molly McPherson [01:17:22]:

Hey. Oh, here, let me hit stop on this.

David [01:17:25]:

Hot bike. Hot bike.

Molly McPherson [01:17:27]:

Hot Mike. But seriously, oh, my gosh. Okay, good, because I have to download this.