259: In the Hot Seat: Analyzing Fallon and NBC's Reactions to Damaging Exposé

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Every episode of the Tonight Show starring Jimmy Fallon opens with a curtain being peeled back to reveal the affable host as he bounds his way out to greet his audience in studio and at home.

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This week, on the podcast, pulling back the curtain and peering behind it to sift through the wreckage from the recent Rolling Stone expose about the Tonight Show, its host, showrunners and staff, let's discuss what Jimmy Fallon and NBC had to say about this PR wrinkle.

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Come take a seat on the couch.

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In the whirlwind that is the entertainment industry, where rumors and innuendos and allegations are constantly swirling, it becomes paramount for media organization and celebrities to foster environments and brands that are grounded in respect and safety and inclusivity.

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Recently, another talk show became the epicenter of a storm following a scathing expose on the Tonight Show starring Jimmy Fallon by Rolling Stone.

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It was yet another moment that put the spotlight on a talk show and the host.

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The revelations from the Rolling Stone article written by Christy Leigh Yandoli paints a disturbing portrait of the work environment at the Tonight Show, where toxicity not just festered but became ingrained in its culture.

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Numerous past and present employees echoed an unsettling chorus of distress and stress, and speaking of a work environment that was marred by bullying and intimidation.

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There seemed to be a persistent lack of empathy and understanding from the higher ups, the showrunners and including Fallon himself, in the face of these serious allegations, such as employees experiencing suicidal ideation due to the work conditions and the use of guest dressing rooms as crying rooms.

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That was a poll quote that almost everyone saw when they read this article.

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The responses that followed from NBC and Fallon seemed disconnected from the gravity of the issues that were raised in the article.

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Let's look at the damage Now.

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When an expose is rolled out and find its way all through social media, it shakes the foundation of whatever the subject matter is in that article.

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And in the case of a talk show host, it's not only going to be the head of the show, the face of the show, it's also going to be the inner workings and the network itself.

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So it casts a long shadow over the legacy of the face of the show, in this case Jimmy Fallon.

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But also these types of exposés serve as a harsh reminder that the people who we invite into our homes via television screens or our phones or iPads are not always as they appear on television.

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We have witnessed this before, when Ellen DeGeneres went through it when James Corden went through it.

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It starts as rumors and whisperings.

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It used to be confined to blind gossip columns, but now it becomes part of the conversation on social media.

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And then these harsh conversations become much louder.

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When other people pick up on the conversations and then create content around these conversations, the press can't help but pick it up.

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And then the alleged misconduct, all the anecdotes, the unflattering experiences dealing with these people and just the exposure of bad behavior.

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It comes all out and everybody sees it.

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The risk is profound when this happens because when a celebrity who is considered by many people to be a fun, affable daily companion and a source of joy, when they're unmasked as someone who's strikingly different behind the scenes, it creates the crumbling of a carefully constructed brand.

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In the case of television shows, the viewer trusts erodes, reputations are shattered and then the cloud of skepticism begins to hover not only on the person but on the industry at large.

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It calls into question the authenticity of media personalities and even the people who they interview.

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What is happening behind the scenes?

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Audiences do grapple with this disconnect when the person who they look up to, when the person who gives them joy and makes them happy, whether they watch them on television or by their albums, lizzo.

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When there is a gap between the on-screen or on-stage persona compared to the real individual behind the person, it can create a lot of problems.

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It not only tarnishes that career, but it also brings in this cynicism and this disillusionment among fans, whether they're viewers or listeners.

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It's going to impact the music industry, like in the case of Lizzo, and the television industry in the case of all these talk show hosts.

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It is a stark reminder that ethical boundaries and creating a respectful workplace environment is important to a lot of people and it doesn't matter if you're a television network or if you're a store that sells televisions.

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Are there TV stores anymore?

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I guess we could call that best buy.

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But when you don't have that type of a workplace and it's toxic those types of stories tend to leak out.

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In addition to the trust being lost and the affection from the audience, you are also creating a trust problem.

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When you've lost the trust, you've lost everything.

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Now let's do a little analysis on the response.

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First, let's look at NBC's statement on Jimmy Fallon.

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It was a statement that you've seen a million times before.

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It is a cut and paste mad libs type of a statement.

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There's just blanks there that you fill in.

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When I read it, I don't even think you need to be trained in this.

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You just need to pay attention and you can see that this statement I'll call it a Pablam statement it's just nothing.

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There's some filling to it because they said something, but it's Pablam Quote.

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We are incredibly proud of the Tonight Show and providing a respectful working environment is a top priority.

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Nbc's statement read as in any workplace, we have had employee raise issues.

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Those have been investigated and action has been taken where appropriate.

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As is always the case, we encourage employees who feel they have experienced or observed behavior inconsistent with our policies to report their concerns so that we may address them accordingly.

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I mean, are you listening to that?

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Are you listening?

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I don't know how many times I've written the word priority, top priority.

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I talked about safety being a top priority when I was working at the cruise lines, at the head of communications.

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Safety was a priority at FEMA.

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For a lot of my clients, safety is always a top priority, so this one is no different.

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But this NBC statement is just generic.

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It's lacking any depth.

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It's lacking any engagements about the concerns that were brought to light.

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There were a lot of serious issues in this article.

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The reporter interviewed 80 people, 80 current and former employees at the Tonight Show no-transcript.

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That number is significant but, however, as they expanded in that statement, sources at NBC emphasized that the majority of employees at the Tonight Show are content with their day-to-day roles and that the Rolling Stone article, which interviewed two current and 14 former employees, represents the perspectives of less than 1% of late night programs nearly 300 current staffers.

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So they got that number wrong.

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But whenever there is a statement that is breaking down a number like that, that is an exercise in framing and framing away likely from truth.

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Nbc knows that there is a problem there, there's a toxicity problem there.

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But whenever we see those numbers now you can get those qualifying types of ratios for good.

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For instance, if you work in emergency management or if you're in any type of situation where you are helping people or you are part of a big news story, that's an emergency, like a disaster.

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So if you are explaining, for instance, we're looking for this lost boat and the search area is the size of Connecticut.

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Or in a lot of the stories about the Titanic remember the Titanic sub oh my gosh, that seems like a lifetime ago oh my goodness, but that was June, because I remember where I was when that happened they would show the size of it.

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So when you talk about it to help paint a picture for a person to understand the story better, it's the same device.

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But when you see it in a statement that is a response statement to a crisis, it is the device that is used to diminish or minimize the charges, which is exactly what this NBC statement is doing, because that argument brushes over the fact that any instance of toxicity, regardless of how many people report it, warrants serious attention and it can't be shrugged off, even if it was one person.

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Imagine a story where one person came out, put their name behind it and talked about that environment, how awful it was.

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That story would be just as powerful and just as damaging if you had 80 anonymous people behind it.

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So that type of argument fails to capture the essence of a positive and nurturing work environment.

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It's just one that goes beyond the satisfaction we're talking about empathy here and that we're inclusive and we're growing, but in the most bare bones, basic way, the statement doesn't cut it at all.

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But I think there's a reason behind that.

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More on that later.

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So let's look at the Jimmy Fallon Apology Now.

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The day after this story in Rolling Stone was published, it was reported that Jimmy Fallon got on a Zoom call with his staff.

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As the man at the helm of the show, he found himself at the center of these allegations and so he felt that he needed to apologize to his staff.

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We don't know if it was his idea someone at the network but he needed to go to the source of the pain, which was employees.

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He didn't get all of them because many of them were former employees.

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So while an apology has reportedly been issued to the staff, what it doesn't address and at least in reports, what we didn't understand being addressed was that Fallon's inconsistent behavior towards the subordinates there.

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Those behaviors were marked by hostility and passive, aggressive remarks, and we heard about a good Jimmy and a bad Jimmy and not.

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A lot of people in my DMs tell me that those accusations that became public in the Rolling Stone article and also made their way around social media a lot of them are true.

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People had kids who worked on the show and they said oh, I can confirm 100%.

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Jimmy Fallon does not let this staff look him in the eye, they do not deal with him or he just blows his lid over minor things.

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So that apology and the context that we all heard it was like a band aid.

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It's a deep cutting wound that happened to that show and Jimmy addressed it immediately with the staff.

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But typically that wouldn't work.

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But perhaps in this environment it might just work, because now in crisis communication the depth of the apology is important, the sincerity and the accompanying actions that go with it to correct course.

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So all of those things are vital and Fallon's apology was important for the timing.

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He reached out to where the pain point was.

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But it seems to lack any commitment to the transformative actions that are needed to guarantee a safe, respectful, nurturing work environment.

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This was not an apology.

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It appears that followed the framework own it, explain it, promise it.

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He owned up to part of it, which is what happens in a lot of these homologies.

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I'm just going to own up to the easy thing, because I don't even want to address all the other things, and then you explain why that happened and then you make a promise to change.

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From what we're hearing, there wasn't anything that gave any employee the indication that things were going to change.

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So what is his leadership role?

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I mean, he's the face of the program, but who's driving it?

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Is it the showrunner?

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Is it NBC?

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Is it Lauren Michaels?

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It appears that there's just a lot of passive, aggressive behavior behind the scenes at the Tonight Show and Fallon's role and responsibilities are certainly a part of it.

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And since he's the face of the show, he is going to get a lot of the backlash and he's going to get the spotlight and what it reveals about the work culture behind the scenes.

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Now, just as an aside, if you follow me on social media, you know that last week I was in New York City the day of recording.

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I was actually there yesterday, but I was there to do an interview with the network.

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I'm going to talk about this more later, I can't reveal it right now, but I spent a few hours at a network discussing this topic and actually me failing but this type of topic.

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And while I was getting ready to go to that interview, I received a text from Access Hollywood from a producer out in Los Angeles, quite astute, she was producing.

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This producer was producing because she put two and two together, that I was in New York City and she asked if I could go to 30 Rock to do an interview for Access Hollywood to talk about Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis.

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I was running so hard that day because that previous weekend I was in New Jersey at my daughter's soccer tournament.

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She's in college and they have that soccer tournament every year and it was pouring rain.

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Anyone who lives mid to New England, mid Atlantic to New England and I think upstate New York as well, and Central New York, dealt with so much bad weather over the weekend.

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It was just pouring rain.

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So I was tired, I was exhausted and you know when you go to kid stuff, you got to go out with parents and there's wine and all this stuff.

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I was slugging it on Monday.

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But when Access Hollywood called, of course I'm going to go.

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Anyone who knows me personally or even if you have a parasocial relationship with me, you know I'm going to go.

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But what that also meant is that I was going to NBC and I was knowing that I was already working on this podcast.

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It was fascinating to me and Access Hollywood, even though it's Hollywood, it's an NBC production, so they have a workplace and part of their offices are at 30 Rock and so when I went up there for the interview, when I was walking down the hall.

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I was being led down there by a producer and to get to Access Hollywood you have to go through the Tonight Show.

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You have to go through all the dressing rooms.

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You know the offices, you know Jimmy Fallon Questlove, you know everyone from the Tonight Show.

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And it was crazy to walk through it.

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So I did take some very, very quick photos while I was there, because it was truly.

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Not only was it just a crazy moment for me, molly doing this, knowing what young Molly wanted to do in her lifetime and here she was at ABC and NBC in the same afternoon was crazy to me.

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And that I was not working in television though I did way back in the day at the local affiliate, but that I was there being interviewed for national television is still crazy to me and it shows the craziness of social media.

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But of course I asked the producer who was bringing me down.

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I said, oh, so here's Fallon, here's Fallon, right, I just wanted to get him talking about something.

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And on the other side of all the Tonight Show offices, when you go down the hallway, so it's this back very kind of narrow hallway and there's the studio.

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So they have all those studios up there and then they have all the offices.

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So that's where you know.

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They go out and they do the work in the green room and all this across from.

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So the Tonight Show was all dead because they're on strike.

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Nobody is there, so the offices are dead.

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It's only news, really.

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That's operating still.

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But across the hall was a new talk show, and I asked the people in my live tonight this is going to be the midpoint ad break for me to tell you that I want you to join PR Confidential.

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The night of this recording, I had my first live where we were talking about, you know, trendy news stories.

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I had my technically my first live in August, when it was about we discussed how to get a job in public relations and marketing and we have a webinar there.

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So if you're still interested, just head on over to PR Confidential.

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The webinar is there.

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It's open to everyone.

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And then for the members the members of the PR Insider Group they have access to the guides that are there as well.

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But that was my first live, but tonight was my first.

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Let's talk about trending news stories.

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Let's talk about popular culture.

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We talked about Jimmy Fallon, we talked about Drew Barrymore, we talked about Oprah, I mean Ashton and Mila.

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It was a great conversation.

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I had so much fun.

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I started on TikTok live so I could just move people over, because I did send out an email today to my list telling them to come on, but I knew I needed to flood it with people, so I did TikTok live first.

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And because I just talked about Ashton and Oprah and Joe Jonas, I have like four TikToks in a row, or two or four, I don't know three or four that have a million views, over a million views.

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I have to fact check this actually to show the complete craziness of social media.

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Oh, I was wrong.

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I was wrong.

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When I was in my hotel in New York City I recorded a quick one on Ashton and Mila.

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It's now 48 hours old, has 2.3 million views.

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The one before that, the Ashton and Mila apology video, where I was at my daughter's game and I just had no time 1.4 million views.

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A 60-second post where I talked about oh my gosh, you know it's September, we have these breaking news stories 2.6 million views.

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It's the first time I talk about Jimmy Fallon and before that I was talking about Joe Jonas 2.9 million views.

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I mean this is insanity.

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So in.

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I want to like five days, two, four, six, eight, I mean like nine million.

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That's crazy.

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That's crazy.

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Here's why I mention all those numbers.

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It's not to say, oh, look at me, look at me and how important I am on social media?

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Not at all.

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I look at those numbers and think what?

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Why?

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I can't even imagine 1.4 people listening to me, much less 1.4 million people listening to me.

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But it shows the power of social media, it shows the power of viral, it shows the power of the algorithm and so when someone hits a crisis, when they're in the swirl of a media storm, it can become so much greater and so much bigger because of social media.

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And you mix in like someone who we know, you know a fan favorite, someone who might be duplicitous, someone who may not be who they appear to be, and you have a story that is ripe for going viral.

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But what's interesting about the Jimmy Fallon story and this is what I had mentioned in my live I dropped it to them, I showed them some pictures when I was in the hallway.

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When I was taking the photos, I said across the hall, I asked the people in my live who do you think is moving in across the hall from Jimmy Fallon, because when I was there I asked, I said, oh, what's going on here?

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Because there was all this hustle and bustle.

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And hustle and bustle, new talk show, hint, someone else who went through a toxic work culture problem.

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They had their own BR crisis.

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It was a new story.

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But the difference, the reason why it wasn't as big of a new story one, it was daytime, but also they nabbed it right away.

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They issued a statement immediately, instagram Carousel and also brand-wise.

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This person seems to be just a genuinely good person and that's Kelly Clarkson.

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I thought how interesting Both of these shows are across the hall from each other and I'm telling you, across the hall we're talking.

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It was so narrow it almost felt like I could reach my arms out.

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That's how narrow it was, and that they're both literally in the same space.

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It's just crazy.

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And they both went through the same issue.

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So let's look at a comparative analysis now.

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What are the industry standards?

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And in looking at the responses.

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So I mentioned Kelly Clarkson and what she did.

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So 11 anonymous employees accused the Kelly Clarkson show also NBC of fostering a toxic work environment.

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It was 10 current employees and one former.

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So that ratio makes it tough, because it's 10 current, that they're overworked and underpaid while at the same time subjected to a work environment that was traumatizing to their mental health sound familiar.

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So the report described employees as lower level staffers who said they needed to take on additional jobs such as babysitting, dog walkers and Uber Eats drivers just to get by financially.

00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:59.586
Now, that story when it came out, if you remember it was a bit of a hit, like I do remember, because it was Kelly Clarkson.

00:22:59.586 --> 00:23:02.826
I thought, oh, kelly, I love you, I don't want anything bad to happen to you.

00:23:02.826 --> 00:23:09.991
So I was watching it and when you splice that story, it's really a story about how staffers are being treated.

00:23:09.991 --> 00:23:12.147
But again, kelly's the host of that show.

00:23:12.147 --> 00:23:18.109
Her name is on the show, but a production company is what really runs that show in a showrunner.

00:23:18.109 --> 00:23:20.612
We don't know the true behind the scenes on it.

00:23:20.612 --> 00:23:31.329
But when you look at the statement by Kelly Clarkson and how quickly the story went away, you know that she really was almost bifurcated in a way, because she doesn't treat the staff like that.

00:23:31.329 --> 00:23:35.049
But there weren't any stories at all about Kelly Clarkson being the problem.

00:23:35.049 --> 00:23:36.624
It's how the show was run.

00:23:36.624 --> 00:23:41.612
Kelly Clarkson doesn't decide how much lower level staffers are paid.

00:23:41.612 --> 00:23:42.825
I mean that's straight out of production.

00:23:42.825 --> 00:23:50.690
So it wasn't good for NBC and Kelly Clarkson, just as the face of it had to speak up about it.

00:23:51.339 --> 00:23:57.874
Now, compared to the Jimmy Fallon story, it's very, very similar.

00:23:57.874 --> 00:24:13.371
Compared to it again, the numbers are a lot lower, but in this article published in Rolling Stone, the complaints were like one former employee said I remember going up on the roof of the stage to cry, being like oh my gosh, what am I doing?

00:24:13.371 --> 00:24:14.944
Why am I putting myself through this?

00:24:14.944 --> 00:24:22.384
Another former staff member specifically said I think the executive producer, alex Duda's a monster.

00:24:22.384 --> 00:24:31.104
I have a friend who's an executive producer who warned me about taking this job because apparently she's done this on every show she's worked on, so there's history there.

00:24:31.104 --> 00:24:37.683
So employees did say that Clarkson was fantastic and that they would be shocked if she knew what was going on.

00:24:37.683 --> 00:24:43.211
Another staffer added that the host has no clue how unhappy her staff is.

00:24:43.211 --> 00:25:06.413
So that's why the Kelly Clarkson crisis is a little different than Jimmy Fallon, because the Rolling Stone article about Jimmy Fallon paints him in a bad light as well that there's good days, there's good Jimmy days and bad Jimmy days, and Jimmy Fallon isn't nice to everyone in that there could be substance abuse issues there.

00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:14.144
There's a lot of buzz and a lot of rumors and blind gossip about Jimmy Fallon struggling with alcohol.

00:25:14.144 --> 00:25:35.987
I had mentioned on the live tonight in PR Confidential that I remember back in I think it was 2016, when Jimmy Fallon almost lost his finger because he was wearing his ring and it's called a ring avulsion where it almost ripped off like his ring, got caught in something, almost ripped his entire finger off.

00:25:35.987 --> 00:25:43.106
So he was in a cast for a long, long time on the show, but the accident was kind of cloudy.

00:25:43.106 --> 00:25:46.749
We weren't quite clear about what happened.

00:25:46.749 --> 00:25:54.729
So in that case, there's just a lot of speculation around it and I just remember the news stories like there's no doubt that this guy was drinking.

00:25:54.729 --> 00:25:59.151
Now does that make a PR crisis if someone struggles with alcohol?

00:25:59.151 --> 00:26:02.549
And there's other rumors that he struggles with drugs too, but those are just rumors and allegations.

00:26:02.549 --> 00:26:06.451
But a lot of that came into my direct messages, my DMs for social media.

00:26:06.451 --> 00:26:12.593
So I think universally, everybody is talking about the fact that there's a lot of stories about Jimmy Fallon.

00:26:12.593 --> 00:26:19.748
But then again on my live tonight, someone was a waitress who waited on him and said he's absolutely wonderful, which that tracks as well too.

00:26:19.748 --> 00:26:36.894
Right, and so I think it boils down to people are just human and everybody has their failings, but sometimes when they're celebrities, they get used to being treated a certain way, and when the persona doesn't match professionally and on air, personal, people just get uneasy with it.

00:26:37.539 --> 00:26:45.204
Now, the statement that NBC put out is very similar to the statement that was released for Kelly Clarkson.

00:26:45.204 --> 00:26:52.053
So a statement was shared back then with Hollywood reporter, a spokesperson for NBC Universal.

00:26:52.053 --> 00:26:54.484
So same thing as Jimmy said.

00:26:54.484 --> 00:26:57.231
This quote, tell me if it sounds familiar.

00:26:57.231 --> 00:27:05.009
We are committed to a safe and respectful work environment and take workplace complaints very seriously, and to insinuate otherwise is untrue.

00:27:05.009 --> 00:27:11.010
When issues are reported, they are promptly reviewed, investigated and acted upon as appropriate.

00:27:11.010 --> 00:27:17.079
The Kelly Clarkson show strives to build a safe, respectful and equitable workplace that nurtures a culture of inclusivity and creativity.

00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:19.644
Oh my goodness, it's like the same statement.

00:27:19.644 --> 00:27:20.823
Right, it's the same statement.

00:27:20.823 --> 00:27:31.922
That's why the attempt at NBC is not a heavy one, because NBC is putting out that problem statement, they're denying it and same thing they just diminished it.

00:27:31.922 --> 00:27:33.326
You know, just like what Jimmy Fallon?

00:27:34.221 --> 00:27:36.449
Now I just want to touch briefly on Ellen DeGeneres.

00:27:36.449 --> 00:27:40.912
So, back in 2020, if you remember, it all started with a tweet and it was from a comedian.

00:27:40.912 --> 00:27:44.328
And again I went back to my live and I said does anyone remember his name?

00:27:44.328 --> 00:27:48.644
And some people in that live clearly worked in entertainment because they knew they came up with Kevin T Porter.

00:27:48.644 --> 00:27:51.813
And his tweet said right now, we all need a little kindness.

00:27:51.813 --> 00:27:58.448
You know, like Ellen DeGeneres always talks about Smiley emoji heart, she's also notoriously one of the meanest people alive.

00:27:58.448 --> 00:28:06.530
Respond to this with the most insane stories you've ever heard about Ellen being mean, and I'll match everyone with $2 to the LA food bank.

00:28:06.530 --> 00:28:09.060
And he tagged it that post.

00:28:09.320 --> 00:28:17.394
As of the third week of September, 11,000 retweets, which are not tweets, now they're posts.

00:28:17.394 --> 00:28:26.334
So 4,600 quotes, 63,000 likes and quotes means someone retweets with a quote on top.

00:28:26.334 --> 00:28:32.863
So here's an example I worked at Real Food Daily, served her in Portia at brunch that's her wife, portia.

00:28:32.863 --> 00:28:39.669
She wrote a letter to the owner and complained about my chip nail polish Not that it was on her plate, but just that it was on my hand.

00:28:39.669 --> 00:28:45.526
I had worked till closing the night before and this was next morning Almost got me fired.

00:28:45.526 --> 00:28:56.825
So Ellen DeGeneres was being, you know, exposed again for not being who she is on screen compared to who she is in real life.

00:28:57.619 --> 00:29:14.989
Now, that story was Buzzfeed, and Buzzfeed spoke to one current and 10 former employees on the show the same number ratio as Kelly Clarkson all of whom asked to remain anonymous, fearing retribution from the talk show and others in the entertainment industry.

00:29:14.989 --> 00:29:26.344
So they said that they were being fired after taking medical leave or bereavement days to attend family funerals, and one employee, who claimed she was fed up with the comments about her race, essentially walked off the job.

00:29:26.344 --> 00:29:32.326
Others said they were also instructed by their direct managers not to speak to DeGeneres if they saw her around the office.

00:29:32.326 --> 00:29:37.932
By the way, same accusations about Jimmy Fallon, and that was in my DM.

00:29:37.932 --> 00:29:41.809
So many people told me directly that Jimmy Fallon did the same thing.

00:29:41.809 --> 00:29:45.542
So now, that was not Rolling Stone, that was Buzzfeed.

00:29:46.420 --> 00:30:02.586
But isn't it interesting in those three stories from Rolling Stone, rolling Stone, jimmy Fallon, rolling Stone, kelly Clarkson and Ellen DeGeneres in Buzzfeed that they all center around the same type of toxic workplace?

00:30:02.586 --> 00:30:11.857
All the employees are anonymous, all the employees are essentially saying the same thing, but just different anecdotes.

00:30:11.857 --> 00:30:14.307
It's also similar, isn't it?

00:30:14.307 --> 00:30:19.006
Do you want to know a very interesting through line about all three of those stories.

00:30:19.006 --> 00:30:35.105
They were written by the same reporter, christy Lee Yandoli the name I mentioned at the top of the podcast, who wrote the Rolling Stone article about Jimmy Fallon, also wrote the story about Kelly Clarkson.

00:30:35.105 --> 00:30:42.046
That was in Rolling Stone magazine and she also wrote the story for Buzzfeed about Ellen DeGeneres.

00:30:42.046 --> 00:30:44.306
It's the same reporter.

00:30:44.306 --> 00:30:46.884
How crazy is that?

00:30:46.884 --> 00:30:50.729
Well, not so when the stories are so similar.

00:30:50.729 --> 00:30:53.949
As an aside, I had to look her up.

00:30:53.949 --> 00:30:58.667
I thought, oh my gosh, did she write about James Corden, like I needed to see how far does a through line go?

00:30:58.667 --> 00:31:09.664
She was writing about those three because those were very specific and what it feels like in those three articles when you compare them together, the similarities that she likely knew.

00:31:09.865 --> 00:31:10.729
She's based out of Hollywood.

00:31:10.729 --> 00:31:11.683
She's a Hollywood reporter.

00:31:11.683 --> 00:31:15.124
She's done a lot of work and she did.

00:31:15.124 --> 00:31:16.228
I looked into her.

00:31:16.228 --> 00:31:17.980
She graduated, I believe, from Syracuse.

00:31:17.980 --> 00:31:20.184
She went to a school in New York, so I think it was Syracuse.

00:31:20.184 --> 00:31:22.346
That's a comm school, so it's making sense.

00:31:22.346 --> 00:31:26.787
My apologies for not knowing precisely, but I do remember that she was a woman studies major.

00:31:26.787 --> 00:31:30.068
So a woman studies major graduated from Syracuse.

00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.407
Writing this article in Hollywood absolutely makes sense.

00:31:33.407 --> 00:31:34.411
All of it fits.

00:31:34.411 --> 00:31:42.750
All the pieces fit together perfectly, because a woman studies major is going to understand injustice, they're going to understand how minorities are treated.

00:31:42.750 --> 00:31:44.646
They're going to understand power struggles.

00:31:44.646 --> 00:31:49.606
They're going to understand the history of, maybe, women working in environments like this.

00:31:49.606 --> 00:31:59.085
So it makes perfect sense that she would be the reporter that would write these types of stories, but for her to be the one reporter to write all of these stories.

00:31:59.085 --> 00:32:07.286
So think about all the stories that you've heard about talk show hosts and toxic environments In the past three years.

00:32:07.286 --> 00:32:08.884
They've all been written by the same person.

00:32:08.884 --> 00:32:11.528
They were all originated by the same person.

00:32:11.528 --> 00:32:13.104
Isn't that crazy?

00:32:13.104 --> 00:32:14.603
It's just crazy.

00:32:15.381 --> 00:32:16.084
Let's get to it.

00:32:16.084 --> 00:32:23.226
As you may have heard, this summer there were allegations of a toxic work environment at our show and then there was an investigation.

00:32:23.226 --> 00:32:26.484
I learned that things happened here that never should have happened.

00:32:26.484 --> 00:32:31.244
I take that very seriously and I want to say I am so sorry to the people who were affected.

00:32:31.244 --> 00:32:40.087
I know that I'm in a position of privilege and power and I realize that with that comes responsibility, and I take responsibility for what happens at my show.

00:32:40.087 --> 00:32:42.446
This is the Ellen DeGeneres show.

00:32:42.446 --> 00:32:45.174
I am Ellen DeGeneres, my name is there.

00:32:45.174 --> 00:32:46.463
My name is there.

00:32:46.463 --> 00:32:48.425
My name is on underwear.

00:32:48.425 --> 00:32:50.465
I'm not sure what I'm saying.

00:32:50.465 --> 00:32:57.305
We have had a lot of conversations over the last few weeks about the show, our workplace and what we want for the future.

00:32:57.305 --> 00:33:01.787
We have made the necessary changes and today we are starting a new chapter.

00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:08.846
So because of that, because she did write all of those stories.

00:33:08.846 --> 00:33:23.244
That's the reason why I think NBC does not place as much emphasis on the rehabilitation of getting through this crisis, because they're looking at it as just one person.

00:33:24.099 --> 00:33:36.227
As some of you may have seen, last week there were stories about me being banned from a restaurant and at the time I considered tweeting about it or Instagramming about it.

00:33:36.227 --> 00:33:44.592
Whenever these sorts of moments come my way, I like to adopt quite a British attitude, of sort of keep calm and carry on.

00:33:44.592 --> 00:33:46.045
Things are going to get written about me.

00:33:46.045 --> 00:33:48.364
Never complain, never explain.

00:33:48.364 --> 00:33:56.565
It's very much my motto, but, as my dad pointed out to me on Saturday, he said, son, well, you did complain, so you might need to explain.

00:33:56.565 --> 00:34:00.505
Look, when you make a mistake, you've got to take responsibility.

00:34:00.505 --> 00:34:01.343
So I thought I would.

00:34:01.343 --> 00:34:05.068
If it's OK, I would share with you what happened.

00:34:05.180 --> 00:34:13.032
So a couple of weeks ago I was in New York with some friends and we went for breakfast at one of my absolute favorite restaurants.

00:34:13.032 --> 00:34:16.065
It's a place called Bath As-Arts and I genuinely I love it there.

00:34:16.065 --> 00:34:18.809
I love the food, the vibe, the service.

00:34:18.809 --> 00:34:24.646
If I lived in New York I'd go every day, on the proviso that they would let me in.

00:34:24.646 --> 00:34:31.847
So we sit down, we ordered, and my wife explained that she has a serious food allergy.

00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:35.764
So three television hosts find themselves in similar circumstances.

00:34:35.764 --> 00:34:47.106
They all grapple with the feedback and they all grapple with the negative publicity, but they all have different levels of crisis, but the reporting style is consistent.

00:34:47.106 --> 00:34:52.210
So Yandoli I mean anonymous sources, former employees.

00:34:52.210 --> 00:34:56.389
She's reporting on the lack of trust that's happening there.

00:34:56.389 --> 00:34:59.106
They're all about hostile work environments.

00:34:59.106 --> 00:35:02.088
They're all about this underlying culture fear.

00:35:02.088 --> 00:35:10.025
They're all about the serious impact of employee welfare, both mentally and financially, and just these poor working conditions.

00:35:10.025 --> 00:35:15.688
It's highlighting these deep-seated issues within the production environments in these shows.

00:35:15.688 --> 00:35:22.885
So it's not just the network, it's not really a network and it's not just the host, it's the production environment.

00:35:22.885 --> 00:35:26.045
But the hosts are taking the hit.

00:35:27.951 --> 00:35:35.753
So we have to reevaluate these types of crises, which is the reason why I think Jimmy Fallon is gonna get on through.

00:35:35.753 --> 00:35:45.635
He's gonna slide right on by, and that's because Jimmy Fallon, to viewers and fans, is still the affable guy right.

00:35:45.635 --> 00:35:47.782
He's well received in the public.

00:35:47.782 --> 00:35:52.250
He doesn't have that Ellen problem of being like a truly nasty person.

00:35:52.250 --> 00:36:04.217
If there was a Kevin T Porter tweet about Jimmy Fallon and there were 63,000, you know likes and 46,000 replies to it, there's 72,000, those are just the quotes.

00:36:04.217 --> 00:36:07.875
There's like 72,000 replies to it, he would have a much bigger problem.

00:36:07.875 --> 00:36:09.400
But he doesn't have that.

00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:22.822
He does have challenges in his behavior and he may have substance issues that's not confirmed at all but I believe he's going to be able to get through that because he does have a better brand.

00:36:23.510 --> 00:36:26.099
Now let's just talk about moving forward.

00:36:26.099 --> 00:36:33.369
It is five days after that expose came out wait one, two, three, four, five, six.

00:36:33.369 --> 00:36:47.675
And, what's interesting, that some people noted on the live and also on TikTok that the Strike Force 5 podcast so that's Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, John Oliver and Seth Meyers, you know got together and they have this podcast.

00:36:47.675 --> 00:36:54.159
Now a new one was uploaded on Tuesday Wait, you mean, I compete with Strike Force 5?

00:36:54.159 --> 00:37:01.637
And they did not address the accusations against Jimmy and the Tonight Show, and a lot of people were talking about that on Twitter.

00:37:01.637 --> 00:37:07.657
But the reason why it was because it was pre-recorded, so we'll have to listen for next week.

00:37:07.657 --> 00:37:09.074
Oh, next week.

00:37:09.074 --> 00:37:14.637
So Strike Force 5 is going to come out the same day as this podcast, so I won't be able to talk about it here, but you know what I'm going to do.

00:37:14.637 --> 00:37:18.795
I'm going to wait to do my TikTok and then I'm going to wait to see.

00:37:18.795 --> 00:37:19.800
That's what I'm going to do.

00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:25.661
I'm going to upload this podcast and then I'm going to go to Strike Force 5 and see what Jimmy has to say.

00:37:25.661 --> 00:37:28.431
So there may be an addendum to this, OK.

00:37:28.431 --> 00:37:29.956
So what's the solution?

00:37:29.956 --> 00:37:30.538
Moving forward?

00:37:30.538 --> 00:37:31.099
What can they do?

00:37:31.099 --> 00:37:32.596
You know where do we go from here.

00:37:33.090 --> 00:37:41.297
So, in light of the current situation, you can't overlook the importance of NBC and Fallon taking the steps that go beyond the statements and apologies.

00:37:41.297 --> 00:37:43.755
For any other industry, any other sector.

00:37:43.755 --> 00:37:55.518
You would need to do that because when there's a deep rooted problem that requires you know some type of a solution from investigations and taking everything seriously I mean those are serious allegations.

00:37:55.518 --> 00:38:17.565
It would be wonderful if Fallon really addressed all of it publicly and if the Tonight Show or the production and NBC really showed a commitment to not just a one-off effort but sustained effort to building a culture that supports and nurtures talent instead of stifling it with intimidation and fear.

00:38:17.565 --> 00:38:19.730
Let's see how that's being done.

00:38:19.730 --> 00:38:23.822
We never saw that with Ellen, but Kelly Clarkson did explain that.

00:38:23.822 --> 00:38:25.110
Also.

00:38:25.110 --> 00:38:41.617
It's incumbent upon NBC and Fallon to embrace this moment not just as a crisis but as an opportunity to bring back that respectful culture Like can you show us that things have changed, Because people are going to watch Jimmy Fallon every night.

00:38:41.617 --> 00:38:47.222
They're going to see him laughing and being Jimmy Fallon, but they'll wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

00:38:48.070 --> 00:38:51.195
Now, for anyone else, this is going to be the portion let's just call it the learning curve.

00:38:51.195 --> 00:38:53.574
How does this relate to you?

00:38:53.574 --> 00:38:56.157
So we're talking about viewers here.

00:38:56.157 --> 00:38:58.217
We're talking about industry insiders.

00:38:58.789 --> 00:39:00.858
But what about your sector, when you work?

00:39:00.858 --> 00:39:04.179
I mean, do you work in a place with a toxic work environment?

00:39:04.179 --> 00:39:06.980
Do you run a place with a toxic work environment?

00:39:06.980 --> 00:39:11.300
What would you do if someone came out and said something about where you work?

00:39:11.300 --> 00:39:23.097
You don't want to take a page out of the NBC playbook and come out with, you know, just a simple band-aid of a Pallum statement, and you don't want to do a Fallon and only you know.

00:39:23.097 --> 00:39:24.240
Speak to the staff.

00:39:24.771 --> 00:39:33.269
You really want to make public changes, because if this is public information and everybody knows it's a public crisis, you want the response to be public as well.

00:39:33.269 --> 00:39:37.349
So don't fear the expose, because it's already coming out anyway.

00:39:37.349 --> 00:39:45.869
Now, maybe Rolling Stone isn't going to do something about you, but people are talking about you and it's going to affect hiring, it's going to affect sales, it just is.

00:39:45.869 --> 00:39:59.567
So if you can be more open about understanding and accepting that there are problems in the workplace and making those changes, that is a terrific way to be able to get through any type of crisis.

00:39:59.567 --> 00:40:00.989
So I'm curious what you think.

00:40:00.989 --> 00:40:03.090
What should NBC do about Jimmy Fallon?

00:40:03.090 --> 00:40:04.565
What does Jimmy Fallon do?

00:40:04.565 --> 00:40:08.889
Did the responses cut it or not?

00:40:08.889 --> 00:40:10.590
So I want to hear from you.

00:40:11.376 --> 00:40:12.710
So jump over to PR Confidential.

00:40:12.710 --> 00:40:15.230
The link is in the show notes.

00:40:15.230 --> 00:40:17.429
So this is my online space now.

00:40:17.429 --> 00:40:21.010
It is a place for subject matter experts.

00:40:21.010 --> 00:40:22.264
That's what's a little bit different than Patreon.

00:40:22.264 --> 00:40:34.389
It's a platform for people to go if they have questions and lives, and just an environment of inclusivity, and I want to foster environment where everyone is welcome and I want to take everyone's questions.

00:40:34.389 --> 00:40:37.722
So head over there, Ask me questions.

00:40:37.722 --> 00:40:38.385
What do you think?

00:40:38.385 --> 00:40:39.670
Give comments, I would love to know.

00:40:39.670 --> 00:40:43.050
And, of course, you can reply to social media as well.

00:40:43.050 --> 00:40:49.909
However, in PR Confidential, especially in the lives, it can be a space for more candid dialogue.

00:40:49.909 --> 00:40:51.768
We start chatting about these things.

00:40:51.768 --> 00:40:53.137
All right.

00:40:53.157 --> 00:40:54.989
In every episode, I leave you with an indestructible PR tip.

00:40:54.989 --> 00:41:00.829
It's that one practical takeaway to help you build an indestructible reputation.

00:41:00.829 --> 00:41:03.900
And here it is.

00:41:03.900 --> 00:41:37.469
If one person has an experience in some environment that you have created, one person is enough, and whether that's the workplace, maybe it's school, maybe it's a classroom, maybe it's some type of group, anything If it's public facing, if it comes out and it's public, the social media environment has a way of taking their words and their need for justice.

00:41:37.469 --> 00:41:40.110
And it is going to be fast.

00:41:40.110 --> 00:41:42.688
What the downfall.

00:41:42.688 --> 00:41:51.021
Jimmy Fallon is protected by NBC, perhaps Lauren Michaels, but if it happens to you, who's going to be your savior?

00:41:51.021 --> 00:42:05.150
So the response be swift, be quick, respond, respond appropriately and make sure that people know that you're going to change and that that environment is going to be a positive one.

00:42:05.150 --> 00:42:06.273

259: In the Hot Seat: Analyzing Fallon and NBC's Reactions to Damaging Exposé

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