250: Gaslighting in Media & Culture: From Jonah Hill to Pop Songs to the White House

Transcript

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The scene my kitchen purpose dinner.

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I was grilling chicken for myself and the kids, I was making some salads and chicken wings for my son, getting into too much detail.

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But my daughter asked to take over the music playlist.

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She said she wanted to play a new song and I thought, ugh, I just was not in the mood.

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I wasn't in a mind space for pop music, not in the mood for peppy TikTok tunes, and I almost said no.

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But I didn't wanna be that parent, that stick in the mud type of a parent.

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So I said yeah, sure.

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Then she played this song and she turned it up full blast.

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It's the new Olivia Rodrigo song Vampire.

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And it starts with these first notes of the piano.

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And oh, I wish we didn't have a copyright issue because I would love to play the song right now.

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But first you hear the piano and then the lyrics.

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Hate to give the satisfaction, asking how you're doing now.

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How's the castle built off of people you pretend to care about?

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When you hear about the lyrics, I think what is she talking about?

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Just what you wanted.

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Look at you, cool guy.

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You got it.

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These lyrics.

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I see the parties and the diamond Sometimes when I close my eyes.

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Six months of torture.

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You sold as some forbidden paradise.

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I loved you truly.

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You gotta laugh at the stupidity.

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I thought, man, that's a song and also a great opening for my podcast this week, all about gaslighting.

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Let's go ["Gaslighting"].

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Welcome to the Indestructible PR Podcast, where we use current events and tested media and PR strategies to help prevent or manage a crisis and build an indestructible reputation.

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From the political arena to the world of pop culture, from guys, gals and one of my favorite movies to people in relationships, gaslighting is utilized to influence control I'm coming back to that but also public opinion narratives and shaping people's understanding of their reality.

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So in this episode, let's explore how gaslighting manifests itself in the media and culture and how it has its impact on people Personally.

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Did you think I wouldn't talk about relationships when I'm talking about gaslighting?

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Ah, come on.

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You gotta know me, let's go.

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Gaslight is the buzzy word.

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You hear it everywhere.

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If you're on social media, particularly TikTok, you hear gaslighting and narcissism.

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People toss it around.

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It almost feels like the words are so diminished and diluted right now.

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They don't mean anything, but they do.

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Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation.

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It leaves victims feeling confused, they doubt their own perception of reality and they're led to question their own sanity.

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It's insidious.

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It's a tactic that is employed or deployed by individuals who want to seek control and power over others.

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Now, the term, if you did not know, has its origins in a play from 1938 called Angel Street and it was adapted into a movie called Gaslight.

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That's what the Ingrid Bergman.

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But the film is about the descent of the character of Ingrid Bergman and she falls into the severe state of self-doubt at the hands of her husband who works systematically, step by step by step, to erode her sanity for his own selfish purposes.

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So what he does is gaslighting.

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Is this subtle changes in the environment?

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So in the movie he dimmed gaslights.

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That's where the term comes from.

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So since that time it's entered the public lexicon.

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It is a real thing.

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Now I'm gonna argue here that a lot of people have only felt gaslighting, probably on a surface level, because it really does happen everywhere.

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The lighter version is kind of like gaslighting, but true psychological torture, manipulative emotion, abuse of gaslighting.

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You know it when you felt it.

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You know it when people lodge it at you, they toss it at you and they use it for their own gain and many people fall victim to it.

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And when you finally come to realize and most often it doesn't happen until there's some interference there is a book or a podcast or a therapist that comes in to explain it to you when you've really been a victim of gaslighting.

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So it is important to recognize the signs of it because it does protect your mental and your emotional wellbeing.

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So I wanna look into it for this episode because the launching point of it is really based on a lot of requests that I received over the actor Jonah Hill.

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It was all over my TikTok, also on Instagram, everybody asking about the Jonah Hill text that came out.

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But before I get into Jonah Hill, let's do another quick pop culture turn and go back to Olivia Rodney.

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Go for a moment, Because that song, Vampire, which now lives in a playlist on my Spotify list.

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It's on my running list and also my summer of 23 playlist.

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I love this song so much it's a great reviewer runner.

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The beat in it is great.

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Or even if you've been gaslighting your life, oh my gosh, cause.

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She bitterly recounts in a very specific way how a much older ex-boyfriend took advantage of her.

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So now in this song it's like she's out for blood Da-dun-dun.

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But so are her fans Like they love this song, as do I.

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But we're gonna come back to the outcome of that song, which is all about revenge.

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But there are some lines in the song and I can't sing it.

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I won't do that to you.

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But there were some lines as I was running and I was listening to it and every girl I ever talked to told me you were bad, bad news.

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You called them crazy.

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God, I hate the way I called them crazy too.

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That's gaslighting.

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You're so convincing.

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How do you lie without flinching those lyrics?

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Go listen to the song.

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If you wanna know what gaslighting is, listen to that song.

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She said Olivia had said about this song that it helped her get through a lot of feelings of regret and anger and heartache.

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It is a song that is from life.

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Like she really felt that someone just sucked the life out of her was a blood sucker and a fame heifer.

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Such a great song.

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But there's also another great.

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I mean there's other grass-leaning songs.

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There's Flowers by Miley Cyrus, which is another kind of revenge song, but then there's Gaslighter Denyah by the Chicks, formerly the Dixie Chicks.

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They're coming in concert this summer.

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I really wanna see them.

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Not the point of those podcasts, but all of this comes back to one of the stars of this episode and all of the DMs about this guy.

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Hello.

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Who are you?

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I'm Peter Brand.

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No, in fact you are Jonah Hill.

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What do?

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you do?

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I'm special assistant to Mark Shapiro, so what do you do?

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I mostly play your analysis right now.

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Yes, in the movie, Billy Bean, brad Pitt wants to know who you are, peter Brand.

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Peter Brand, who in fact, is Paul D Podesta, the inspiration for Hill's character, who was the mastermind of the analytic approach at the center of the Oakland A's that put Billy Bean Brad Pitt as the GM of the A's back in 2011.

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Also happens to be the same team that lost to the Red Sox when I went and saw them Fenway Park this weekend.

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Like I said, this episode is all over the place.

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It's a true Molly episode.

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But back to Peter, who is really Paul, who is really Jonah Hill of a whale who has a problem because Jonah Hill now the ex-boyfriend of surfer Sarah Brady, who another Molly point here, when you hear the name Sarah Brady, sarah Brady is the second Sarah Brady that I know.

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The first Sarah Brady that I know was an advocate for gun control, after her husband, james Brady, who was a press secretary to President Ronald Reagan.

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He was left permanently disabled in an assassination attempt.

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So if you were alive and you watched that happen on the news and James Brady on the ground holding his head, oh God, the memories of that Gosh, gen X and baby boomers, the stuff that we had to suffer through.

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But anyway, but that's the first Sarah Brady.

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But again, I digress here.

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Sarah Brady is also the ex-girlfriend of Jonah Hill.

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Now Jonah Hill in the news.

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So at the time of this recording, it's all over the news.

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So at the time that this is published, this will be an older story, but I'm sure it will still be in the news, because I'm going to guess If you've been listening to this podcast.

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On the day of its release, jonah Hill has not come out with any type of a statement None whatsoever.

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So the couple started dating in August of 2021.

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And they split up the following year.

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So it wasn't a long relationship, but it was enough that Sarah, you know, was emotionally involved, and so what she ended up doing was a bit of an Instagram dump showing a lot of the text is saved in her phone from someone named quote Jonah, and he was writing in a way that seemed somewhat manipulative.

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For example, he made a list of demands.

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Now Sarah is a semi professional surfer, so he was asking her to take down social media posts, to stop modeling, cut off friendships with men and quote women who are in unstable places what?

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And he also talks about boundaries and there's just a lot of back and forth that came from these texts.

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So, for example, he says I don't want to you, plain and simple, if you need surfing with men, boundary lists, inappropriate friendships with men to model to both pictures of yourself in a bathing suit, to both sexual pictures.

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Friendships with women who are in unstable places and from your wild recent past, getting past beyond, getting a lunch or coffee or something respectful.

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I have no idea what that means.

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I am not the right partner for you.

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If these things bring you to a place of happiness, I support it and there will be no hard feelings.

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These are my boundaries for a romantic partnership, my boundaries with you, based on the ways these actions have hurt our trust.

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Respect.

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However you want to live your life, you only get one sort of done with explaining myself.

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That was Jonah Hill.

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Let me just now read what Sarah Brady said and reply.

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These are, through the text, three removed, not the video.

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Yet it is my best surfing video.

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Would you feel better if the cover frame was different?

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Any more specific ones that bother you?

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Yes, said Jonah Hill, one that isn't of your ass in a thong.

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And Sarah writes back not a thong but K.

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So you absolutely get a sense of what's going on here.

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So there's a lot of back and forth here where Sarah is explaining the reason why she's doing this is because she had said this on Instagram.

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She said keeping it to myself was causing more damage to my mental health than sharing it could ever do.

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So then she went back and even posted more information.

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Now Jonah Hill now he's with someone else, someone named Olivia Malar.

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They had a baby together in June.

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So Sarah said that she didn't want to release a lot of these texts because they were announcing the birth of this baby.

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However, she felt that she needed to save women from this behavior, and one of the issues that came out of these leaked texts was this idea that Jonah Hill was weaponizing therapy talk in a lot of these texts.

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So, instead of speaking his truth and just getting to the point, he's using a lot of therapy buzzwords like trust and boundaries.

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So that type of talk makes it very difficult to negotiate any type of interaction with a person, altercation with a person.

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It feels like they're trying to frame it different, to make you feel like you don't understand therapy, which is kind of gaslighty, right.

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But you know, for example, jonah Hill wrote in August of 2022,.

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I know I don't need to, but in the spirit of pure respect to our friendship and appreciation for each other, I did want to be transparent that I did start dating someone recently.

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I'm sorry if that is painful, it just happened.

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I didn't want to not be transparent with you ever, as I care about you.

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And then later that same day, sarah Brady, the ex-girlfriend, shared paparazzi photos of Jonah kissing the girlfriend, olivia, on the beach, but the photos mistakenly identified that it was Sarah and Olivia, so that kind of kept her involved in this you know exchange.

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All right.

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Then Sarah starts leaking information that Jonah was sexting her while he was with Olivia.

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So now it starts to get a little, you know, a little more nasty, a little more revenge-like.

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And Sarah is replying I'm just showing your own text to me as she's discussing this sexting and that he was, you know, somewhat violating her and he was doing this while he was with this woman.

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And she replies can you put yourself in my shoes for a sec how I might feel gaslit by your behavior and communication?

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Now, I could spend an hour reading all of the texts and all the back and forth on what happened between these two and it's, and if you're interested in the topic of gaslighting, it is almost worth it just to check out what it might look like or what other people are going through.

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But when it comes to the topic of Jonah Hill and his girlfriend, sarah Brady, I will say I asked a question over on threads.

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I'm on threads now.

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You can see my link in the show notes or head over to my link tree.

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I have a connection there and, again, like I said in my last episode, there will be a podcast all about threads.

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But I had asked.

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I'm getting a lot of requests to discuss Jonah Hill's ex-Sarah Brady, claiming he's a misogynist narcissist.

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This relationship aside, I'm curious on public opinion on this matter.

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Why do people take to social in these cases?

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You know serious query Is it a writing of a power imbalance, revenge or something else?

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Now, most of the people who replied fell in the same category.

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One person said regardless of whatever the truth is, thank you for asking this question.

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I was feeling it, but feeling like I couldn't ask it.

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So this is someone who kind of matched my feeling of it, like I'm asking something without really asking it.

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So here are some of the things that people said A combination of all the above, like this person is famous but really a monster.

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People must know.

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Someone else said I guess it could be for many reasons, but the effect will be to hurt him and his career.

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So it's hard not to think it's about anger and revenge.

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Someone said I have a hard time with private text being made public years after.

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Someone else said for women, getting the word out is so important to protect others.

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I remember, in the wake of me too, just how many industries revealed that there was a secret Google doc full of industry abusers that would get passed around so folks could try to avoid it.

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Another person preemptive or correcting a Darvo narrative which is blaming the victim, warning future partners, publicly shaming them into getting support if reputation is all a narcissist cares about.

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Someone else said to protect other women.

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And this one said the timing on this one is awfully suspicious to me.

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Timing is where you can usually find a motive for release or going public with something.

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I work with personality disorders.

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The gaslighting is so disoriented you can't tell what's real.

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It's healing for others to validate your reality, as well as regaining a sense of power and control.

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And I had many, many other replies to this because this topic of gaslighting.

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It's an umbrella topic, so I'm talking about Jonah Hill, I'm going to talk about other things as well, but I think it's really important to understand what it is, why it's used, but why it's used in the context of social media.

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When it comes to this revenge, I'm going to get there, but stick with me for a moment.

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Now let's pause on pop culture for a moment and let's shift into the political realm, because in the political arena, gaslighting techniques are often utilized because they need to influence public opinion and the press.

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They're trying to control narratives and shape understanding of their reality, whether it's from the White House or a politician.

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So how does it manifest itself in the political realm?

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Now?

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Recently I was reading the news yes, I don't just go to TikTok, I read actual news and I saw that the White House was dealing I hate to laugh, but the White House was dealing with an issue of having something rather unusual end up in the West Wing.

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That's something you would find in the White House, let's say, during the Abraham Lincoln years, and that would be a bag of cocaine.

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It was found near the West Wing on July 2nd.

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On July 5th, white House Press Secretary Corrine John Pierre had to hold a news conference to discuss the cocaine.

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Can you give any more details on where the Secret Service found cocaine in the West Wing and how it got there?

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So, as you know, this is under the preview of the Secret Service.

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They are currently investigating what happened over the weekend, so I would have to refer you to the Secret Service on all of this.

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But one thing that I can share, that I'll share a little bit more information.

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As you know, the President and the First Lady and their family were not here this weekend, as you all reported on this, and as you also know that they left on Friday and returned just yesterday.

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Where this was discovered is a heavily traveled area where many White House, west Wing I should be even more specific the West Wing visitors come through this particular area.

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I just don't have anything more to share.

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It is under investigation by the Secret Service, this is in their purview, and so we're going to allow, certainly, the investigation to continue and we have confidence that the Secret Service will get to the bottom of this.

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Now I have to give her a break.

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This would be a tough one to manage, without a doubt, because when a person thinks about cocaine, it's going to connect to one person that is affiliated with the White House.

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When I deal with a crisis, when I'm working with clients, or even when I'm trying to work through one myself, there's two words I always fall back on.

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It's trust have we lost it?

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How do we maintain it?

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But also the word reasonable.

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You want reasonable people to think a certain way, so I tell this to clients all the time.

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In fact, I said it three times today to three separate clients.

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We are not messaging to our haters.

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We're not messaging to trolls.

00:20:04.384 --> 00:20:07.127
We are not messaging to our super fans either.

00:20:07.127 --> 00:20:14.685
We're messaging to reasonable people, because reasonable people can untangle issues and problems and sometimes they can see through it.

00:20:14.685 --> 00:20:23.970
Even if you're at the center of something, even if the hot spotlight is on you, it's hard to see it, but truly reasonable people can untangle this stuff.

00:20:23.970 --> 00:20:38.226
But in the case of the cocaine in the White House, reasonable people are thinking that it's reasonable that Hunter Biden, president Biden's son, is the person who accidentally dropped a bag of cocaine in the White House.

00:20:38.226 --> 00:20:41.066
That's a reasonable person is going to think that.

00:20:41.066 --> 00:20:49.432
So Jampierre has to message out of that and that's not easy.

00:20:50.500 --> 00:20:52.606
So I want you to listen to this next clip.

00:20:52.606 --> 00:20:55.366
This is a reporter from the New York Post.

00:20:55.366 --> 00:21:01.271
New York Post right-leaning, more conservative, without a doubt.

00:21:01.271 --> 00:21:04.126
Jampierre knows who she's calling on.

00:21:04.126 --> 00:21:10.084
So there might be a little more of a protection mode up because she knows it's coming from a conservative paper.

00:21:10.084 --> 00:21:11.942
But listen to the question.

00:21:11.942 --> 00:21:13.648
Listen if it's fair.

00:21:13.648 --> 00:21:18.030
They talk about the Hatch Act but then they get into the cocaine and then listen to the response.

00:21:18.030 --> 00:21:27.205
Secondly, sorry to bring up cocaine again, but there was a question yesterday during the press gavel with Andrew Bates.

00:21:27.205 --> 00:21:30.694
That was, I guess he said that it had.

00:21:30.775 --> 00:21:32.579
He was avoiding it because of the Hatch Act.

00:21:32.579 --> 00:21:39.554
I'm just asking again can you just say once and for all whether or not the cocaine belonged to the Biden family?

00:21:39.554 --> 00:21:44.489
So a couple of things there.

00:21:44.489 --> 00:21:54.246
He mentioned the Hatch Act because the question was posed to him using Donald Trump, and so he was trying to be very mindful.

00:21:54.246 --> 00:22:01.266
Okay, I hear you, but you're asking me a question, so I'm answering it for you, and so that's why he said the Hatch Act.

00:22:01.266 --> 00:22:08.243
So I would have you read the transcript, and read the transcript fully, so you can see exactly what he was trying to say.

00:22:08.243 --> 00:22:09.387
So that's number one.

00:22:09.387 --> 00:22:10.984
So we're not avoiding the question.

00:22:10.984 --> 00:22:11.788
That is not true.

00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:16.890
We've answered this question, litigated this question for the last two days exhaustively.

00:22:16.890 --> 00:22:29.285
There has been some irresponsible reporting about the family and so I got to call that out here and I have been very clear.

00:22:29.285 --> 00:22:35.141
I was clear two days ago when talking about this over and over again, as I was being asked a question.

00:22:35.141 --> 00:22:39.471
As you know, and media outlets reported this, the Biden family was not here.

00:22:39.471 --> 00:22:40.643
They were not here.

00:22:40.643 --> 00:22:42.333
They were at Camp David.

00:22:42.333 --> 00:22:43.519
They were not here Friday.

00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:44.944
They were not here Saturday.

00:22:44.944 --> 00:22:46.068
They were not here Sunday.

00:22:46.068 --> 00:22:47.505
They were not even here Monday.

00:22:47.505 --> 00:22:56.945
They came back on Tuesday, so to ask that question is actually incredibly irresponsible and I'll just leave it there.

00:22:56.945 --> 00:23:00.445
Okay, I'll take one more.

00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:10.327
Now, I don't know if you could hear that sound or not, but that was the sound of tap, dancing, shuffle ball, shift change to the left.

00:23:10.327 --> 00:23:12.727
The first family was out of town.

00:23:12.727 --> 00:23:15.728
Tap, tap, shuffle ball, change to the right.

00:23:15.728 --> 00:23:20.571
It's a highly trafficked area, the West Wing.

00:23:20.571 --> 00:23:27.352
The West Wing is a highly trafficked area for cocaine.

00:23:27.352 --> 00:23:46.963
I mean it's highly trafficked for, okay, people who work in the White House yeah, staffers, yeah, maybe, maybe secretary Pete Buttigieg, uh, taurus, but cocaine, I mean White House traffic, yeah, but drug traffickers.

00:23:46.963 --> 00:23:49.739
It's crazy.

00:23:49.739 --> 00:23:51.641
Now I actually feel sorry for it.

00:23:51.641 --> 00:23:55.243
I cannot imagine having to message through that.

00:23:56.115 --> 00:23:57.721
But what do you do when you're on the defense?

00:23:57.721 --> 00:24:01.585
What do you do if you're being threatened?

00:24:01.585 --> 00:24:12.083
So in this case, you know your post conservative right, you're a Democratic, you're a Democratic secretary, press secretary You're gonna be a little on edge, you're gonna be protective.

00:24:12.083 --> 00:24:23.961
Perhaps you know the truth and you're being called out for it, which is what happens a lot in gaslighting, which is when people know they're being called on the carpet where the cocaine was allegedly found.

00:24:23.961 --> 00:24:41.262
So what they do sometimes in defense, so gaslight and that's what it seemed like to me is again this manipulative tactic, because what she was doing she was blaming the media for questioning about the cocaine and labeled it as irresponsible journalism.

00:24:41.615 --> 00:24:44.661
Telling a journalist that they're irresponsible is like telling a journalist they're lying.

00:24:44.661 --> 00:24:46.862
Journalists don't wanna be told that they're liars.

00:24:46.862 --> 00:24:50.977
That goes against all of the journalistic ethics that they have.

00:24:50.977 --> 00:24:51.559
That's inside them.

00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:54.238
That's not to say that all journalists are like that, but most are.

00:24:54.238 --> 00:24:56.704
Most that I know are ethical people.

00:24:56.704 --> 00:24:59.000
They're responsible journalists.

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:13.278
Now, journalism as a whole can delve into irresponsibility, but that's a highly charged statement and they can be seen as a form of gaslighting, because you're attributing the responsibility to the press for asking the question.

00:25:13.278 --> 00:25:18.260
You're blaming them instead of addressing the question or providing a genuine response.

00:25:18.260 --> 00:25:25.162
Instead of placing the blame on the media, she wants to completely deflect that most people are thinking as Hunter Biden.

00:25:25.162 --> 00:25:29.461
And to what lengths is she going to go to protect Hunter Biden?

00:25:29.461 --> 00:25:29.955
Now?

00:25:29.955 --> 00:25:31.342
We don't know that it's Hunter Biden.

00:25:31.342 --> 00:25:31.936
We don't.

00:25:31.936 --> 00:25:33.382
There's no proof of that.

00:25:33.382 --> 00:25:35.279
It's in the hands of the Secret Service.

00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:38.382
But okay.

00:25:38.835 --> 00:25:43.961
Now let's move into just the area of the personal gaslighting, because the two do crisscross.

00:25:43.961 --> 00:25:48.982
I was having a conversation with someone last night, fellow TikToker, someone my age.

00:25:48.982 --> 00:25:56.259
So we sit and we talk about how stressful it is to be at TikToker Because we're constantly in a position where we have to protect ourselves.

00:25:56.259 --> 00:26:04.381
But we were talking about the brand and why we do what we do on there, how we like to teach and I like to teach about public relations.

00:26:04.381 --> 00:26:06.961
I like to talk about it Because I love the industry.

00:26:06.961 --> 00:26:08.019
I just love what I do.

00:26:08.019 --> 00:26:09.059
I love media.

00:26:09.059 --> 00:26:10.359
I mean, I'm a newsie at heart.

00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:12.398
I love newsie, I love newsie people.

00:26:12.875 --> 00:26:22.684
But this whole idea of indestructible PR and the name of this podcast, this idea of being indestructible, is really being gaslit proof.

00:26:22.684 --> 00:26:25.301
It's not allowing people to manipulate you.

00:26:25.301 --> 00:26:29.919
It's not allowing any type of manipulation or lying to happen.

00:26:29.919 --> 00:26:31.538
I don't do that.

00:26:31.538 --> 00:26:32.818
It's by principle.

00:26:32.818 --> 00:26:34.781
That's not the type of PR I practice.

00:26:34.781 --> 00:26:37.222
I'm not a fixer like last week's episode.

00:26:37.222 --> 00:26:41.099
I'm not gonna fix something for you, we're gonna work through it.

00:26:41.099 --> 00:26:42.500
And how you do that is with truth.

00:26:42.500 --> 00:26:45.759
It's not pretty, it's not fun, but it's with the truth.

00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:58.200
But gaslighting is more of that fixing mentality and this whole indestructible PR brand was built from this idea of oh no, no, no, no, no, there will be no gaslighting here.

00:26:58.200 --> 00:26:59.919
No, no, no.

00:27:00.714 --> 00:27:01.640
So what is gaslighting?

00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:04.063
How do you spot it when it's a person?

00:27:04.063 --> 00:27:07.922
It's when they shift blame, and this can happen in the press.

00:27:07.922 --> 00:27:09.259
It can happen in life.

00:27:09.259 --> 00:27:11.019
It can happen from spokespeople.

00:27:11.019 --> 00:27:14.298
It can happen like Alec Baldwin no, I didn't kill anyone.

00:27:14.298 --> 00:27:17.123
But, mr Baldwin, you in the gun and you shot and you killed someone.

00:27:17.123 --> 00:27:18.219
Nope, not my fault.

00:27:18.219 --> 00:27:20.884
Also, denying reality that's gaslighting.

00:27:20.884 --> 00:27:25.923
They wanna deny or distort truth Again, just like the press secretary with the press.

00:27:25.923 --> 00:27:32.441
It's irresponsible journalism and it's manipulating perceptions, like the press was getting it all wrong.

00:27:32.795 --> 00:27:35.021
But when it comes to people, now think about people.

00:27:35.021 --> 00:27:37.361
Now think about politicians as people.

00:27:37.361 --> 00:27:39.622
I don't wanna just dunk on the Democrats.

00:27:39.622 --> 00:27:41.601
I mean, think about former president Trump.

00:27:41.601 --> 00:27:43.901
He used gaslighting as a technique.

00:27:43.901 --> 00:27:49.723
All the time he called people nasty and liars and not very smart, and weak and racist.

00:27:49.723 --> 00:27:54.981
I mean those were manipulative tactics to distract people from recognizing the same qualities that he possessed.

00:27:54.981 --> 00:27:58.982
He's projecting all those things and that's usually another tell of a gaslighter.

00:27:58.982 --> 00:28:02.303
When someone's gaslighting you, they're projecting and telling you what you are.

00:28:02.303 --> 00:28:04.722
When it's really them, it's them.

00:28:04.722 --> 00:28:09.060
So president Trump former president Trump did the exact same thing.

00:28:09.060 --> 00:28:12.820
He did it all the time, straight out of the talking playbook, and a lot of politicians do it.

00:28:12.820 --> 00:28:15.241
So you as a voter can protect yourself.

00:28:15.241 --> 00:28:19.321
You, as a voter, can determine if someone's gonna gaslight you or not.

00:28:19.694 --> 00:28:22.403
But now, what kind of people in life are gaslighters?

00:28:22.403 --> 00:28:34.221
The reason why I'm getting into this area is because, like I said, like in my job, even though I professionally work in crisis communication, I gotta tell you a big part of my job is identifying who's telling the truth and who isn't, who's manipulating, who's not.

00:28:34.221 --> 00:28:35.057
Who's the gaslighter?

00:28:35.057 --> 00:28:42.246
I'm constantly looking for these personal traits and the weaponization of psychological warfare on people.

00:28:42.246 --> 00:28:44.442
I use it all the time, all the time.

00:28:45.115 --> 00:28:46.882
So what kind of people are gaslighters?

00:28:46.882 --> 00:28:54.199
Well, psychologists say their narcissists are typically the likely candidates, because they're more invested in themselves and what they want.

00:28:54.199 --> 00:28:59.784
They don't care about other people, they care about themselves and they usually say things with no remorse whatsoever.

00:28:59.784 --> 00:29:05.661
So gaslighters hold these types of beliefs, whether consciously or unconsciously.

00:29:05.661 --> 00:29:09.684
So they want to one override another person's reality.

00:29:09.684 --> 00:29:14.900
They're going to tell you what the truth is, despite what you have to say, they're gonna tell you what's true.

00:29:14.900 --> 00:29:20.122
Also, if you challenge them, it's completely unacceptable to them.

00:29:20.122 --> 00:29:21.138
They will not allow it.

00:29:21.138 --> 00:29:23.020
They will not be challenged.

00:29:23.020 --> 00:29:26.339
They will not answer to a challenge, they will not admit fault.

00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:29.395
They will never admit fault, ever.

00:29:29.777 --> 00:29:36.939
The emotional kid is maybe a little bit of sarcasm, like oh, you're right, you're right, I'm an idiot, I'm stupid, you're smart, I'm dumb.

00:29:36.939 --> 00:29:46.154
You might get that, but you are never, ever gonna hear a gaslighter or a narcissist say I'm sorry, you won't, you won't hear that.

00:29:46.154 --> 00:29:51.550
And three they want to possess people, they want to control people.

00:29:51.550 --> 00:29:56.829
Now, I mentioned the word control in the beginning of the episode when I was talking about Jonah Hill.

00:29:56.829 --> 00:30:02.073
Speaking of Jonah Hill, let's just take a moment to loop right back to something else he said.

00:30:02.073 --> 00:30:05.471
Take a listen, why do you think I'm making this movie about you?

00:30:06.565 --> 00:30:08.132
I think it's my ideas.

00:30:08.132 --> 00:30:29.035
I think my ideas had an effect on you and I think you want to expose other people to the ideas, and maybe I don't know, maybe it's just the attempt to gain control over me, or that was part of a candid conversation that he had with his psychiatrist, phil Stutz.

00:30:29.644 --> 00:30:31.653
It was a documentary on Netflix.

00:30:31.653 --> 00:30:32.428
It was pretty good.

00:30:32.428 --> 00:30:33.531
It was pretty good.

00:30:33.531 --> 00:30:36.574
It was all about his therapist's life.

00:30:36.574 --> 00:30:43.511
This, phil Stutz, is a psychiatrist who had very unique life experiences, so he talks about this visual model of therapy.

00:30:43.511 --> 00:31:04.733
But this show on Netflix, which was successful and well regarded, did not help Jonah Hill manage this type of crisis, because a lot of things that he was being accused of was weaponizing therapy, using therapy, speak against her, and you heard in that clip what he said about his patient.

00:31:05.345 --> 00:31:06.528
You want to control me?

00:31:06.528 --> 00:31:11.535
So the bottom line is Jonah Hill a narcissist?

00:31:11.535 --> 00:31:14.952
Is Jonah Hill trying to gaslight Sarah Brady?

00:31:14.952 --> 00:31:24.290
We don't know, though I will say my friend who works in Hollywood, said that Jonah Hill is known for being a bit of an asshole, but people can still be assholes and not be gaslighters.

00:31:24.290 --> 00:31:26.075
So we don't know.

00:31:26.075 --> 00:31:27.550
We don't know, but it's not a good look.

00:31:27.550 --> 00:31:30.172
Whatever it is, it's not a good look.

00:31:30.172 --> 00:31:34.288
It's not a healthy relationship, probably a relationship that should have ended.

00:31:34.288 --> 00:31:53.511
But looking at the types of patterns and inconsistencies in these gaps in communications, stories, motivations, so whether it's a celebrity or a politician or an individual, but also if it's personal, people can be manipulated by people they care about and by loved ones.

00:31:53.511 --> 00:32:00.567
So, just like we saw with Jonah Hill, yes, he's a celebrity, but that was a breakdown in a relationship with a girlfriend.

00:32:01.565 --> 00:32:07.755
So it could be a relationship, it could be one with parents, it could be one that you're in, it could be a husband, it could be a wife.

00:32:07.755 --> 00:32:21.653
You could be with someone who is weaponizing the idea of trying to communicate with you in a respectful manner and they're actually manipulating you.

00:32:21.653 --> 00:32:32.875
Now, some of the signs that I tell my friends and I tell my kids and my kids' friends the red flags, the four horsemen of gaslighting.

00:32:32.875 --> 00:32:40.932
It's the contradiction, it's the lies, it's the deception, it's discrediting perception of reality, it's projecting their behavior onto you.

00:32:40.932 --> 00:32:44.153
It is just manipulative behavior.

00:32:44.153 --> 00:32:54.471
And the biggest red flag the biggest red flag when you know you've been gaslit by a true manipulator and someone who does not have your back it's when they diagnose you.

00:32:54.471 --> 00:33:11.953
If anyone I'm telling you, young people, listen up, even older people, older people in relationships, people my age if someone is telling you that something's wrong with you, that you're depressed or you're manic, depressive or you're bipolar, if anyone is diagnosing you and they have no rights.

00:33:11.953 --> 00:33:13.229
They have no right.

00:33:13.229 --> 00:33:15.770
They don't have the license, they don't have the education, they have no right.

00:33:15.770 --> 00:33:21.993
Head for Z-Hills, that is a gaslighter, and that gaslighter does not have your back.

00:33:21.993 --> 00:33:23.912
They are there to harm you.

00:33:24.365 --> 00:33:44.394
But there is a second type of gaslighty behavior that happens and it's slightly different, and this is the behavior that, yes, comes from a person and, yes, comes from a person in a relationship that you care about, but that person might be projecting their own insecurities onto you.

00:33:44.394 --> 00:34:00.512
So, instead of trying to distort your reality for the sake of manipulating you and hurting you, it is their own fear of vulnerability and their own fear of rejection that causes some conversations to be a little gaslighty.

00:34:00.512 --> 00:34:12.434
It allows them to control their pain and their rejection, because it could be self-esteem, it could be insecurity, it could be some false sense of validation.

00:34:12.434 --> 00:34:14.753
They don't think they're worthy, maybe, of someone else.

00:34:14.753 --> 00:34:17.452
So they're going to try and distance themselves from you.

00:34:17.452 --> 00:34:25.295
But in order to do that, to convince the person, they're going to tell the person why they're wrong.

00:34:25.295 --> 00:34:28.655
So that might sound like I'm wrong for you.

00:34:28.655 --> 00:34:32.088
For these reasons, I'm too old for you, I'm too young for you.

00:34:32.088 --> 00:34:33.432
I can't keep up with you.

00:34:33.432 --> 00:34:37.393
I don't like this about me, so I'm going to say that you don't like this about me.

00:34:37.393 --> 00:34:39.431
The sky is blue, whatever.

00:34:39.431 --> 00:34:47.594
They're going to throw every excuse in the book for why they can't be with you, when the only excuse is because they don't think they're worthy of it.

00:34:47.594 --> 00:34:52.110
So it's a little gaslighty, like gaslight, but it's not there to hurt you.

00:34:52.110 --> 00:34:53.548
Ultimately, you will be hurt.

00:34:53.548 --> 00:34:56.572
I promise you you'll still be hurt, but there's a difference there.

00:34:56.572 --> 00:35:02.630
They're not there to hurt you, it's just they don't want themselves to be hurt, and that's an important distinction.

00:35:03.304 --> 00:35:07.614
Now, in every episode, I always leave you with one indestructible PR tip.

00:35:07.614 --> 00:35:11.512
It's an easy to remember takeaway to help you build an indestructible reputation.

00:35:11.512 --> 00:35:18.030
In this episode, I was focusing on gaslighting and I bounced around to a lot of different areas that gaslighting can appear.

00:35:18.030 --> 00:35:30.351
But in this last piece, I want to bring it around back to reputation and reputation management, and here it is no matter the type of gaslighting that happens in your life.

00:35:30.351 --> 00:35:37.353
It's important to remember that whatever you do or say in response to that is going to impact you.

00:35:37.353 --> 00:35:46.811

250: Gaslighting in Media & Culture: From Jonah Hill to Pop Songs to the White House

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